Morocco # English board

On a recent visit to Morocco we were shocked to see the way the zoo in Rabat has deteriorated. We decided to take our visiting adult children, as the last time they actually visited the zoo they were all little kids. To be quite honest, I don't think anything has been done there since the first time we went, about 20 years ago! It is totally neglected, the gardens are all overgrown, and the animals are being kept in miserable conditions. All the facilities were locked up and certainly looked as though no maintenance has been carried out at all for years and years. Is it closing down? It's a shame as it's a rare refuge of green in what is rapidly becoming a concrete jungle. It was a very depressing day out.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/24/2007 02:44 by lurcher21.

i was in rabat last summer and i made sure to stay away from the zoo after hearing the same things you just mentioned. i don t think i d be able to see all those poor animals under such horrible living conditions, it s just unbearable for me personally.
now what i wonder is, why hasn t anybody done anything to fix the situation????

the whole morocco is a big Zoo. Anyway, if the people cannot take care of their well being, how do you think those locked animals (prisoners) will be treated. I really do beleive that we live in a careless society anywhere you go. All you hear is 'it is not my business' or 'I don't care' or 'it is their responsibility' and the list goes on.

its harram to lock animals,its against the rule of the islam an the human being..its a shame to see such things.

But with some investment the zoo could become a huge asset to Rabat. There are some excellent zoos in other parts of the World, where a lot of important research and conservation on endangered species is carried out, and one can clearly see the animals are well looked after and content. Sadly, there is very little compassion for animals in Morocco. You can see it everywhere you go. Beautiful horses, clearly Arab race, pulling huge loads of building materials, yet SO skinny and undernourished. You see horses and mules with terrible sores on their backs from carelessness - just not putting any padding between the straps of the harness and the horses' skin. I've seen them with huge welts on their backs open to the sun and the flies. Do these people not stop to think that their horse is making them a living and supporting their families?? We have actually stopped the car and shouted at young children whacking their mules with big thick sticks, but are just met with incredulous looks. Do the Imams in the mosques ever remind the worshippers that they should be compassionate towards animals?? Don't get me wrong - we have seen a very small minority who do look after their horses, and the difference in the animal is immediately apparent. Going back to the subject of the zoo - it should just be closed down and the animals moved if possible, if there are no plans to improve the situation there. I wonder if there is some organisation, like the World Wildlife Fund who might step in? If they were to embarrass the country maybe something could be done? I still remember the poor bears just rocking non-stop from side to side, a clear sign of distress. Our daughter was very upset.

I went there once in my life when I was a kid 15 years ago, I have some nice recollections from that visit.

Now, reading your comments makes me sad. This zoo should be closed down and the Animals should be given to other zoos in Europe where they know how to take care of Animals. It's not a priority for Morocco.

Quote
lurcher21
But with some investment the zoo could become a huge asset to Rabat. There are some excellent zoos in other parts of the World, where a lot of important research and conservation on endangered species is carried out, and one can clearly see the animals are well looked after and content. Sadly, there is very little compassion for animals in Morocco. You can see it everywhere you go. Beautiful horses, clearly Arab race, pulling huge loads of building materials, yet SO skinny and undernourished. You see horses and mules with terrible sores on their backs from carelessness - just not putting any padding between the straps of the harness and the horses' skin. I've seen them with huge welts on their backs open to the sun and the flies. Do these people not stop to think that their horse is making them a living and supporting their families?? We have actually stopped the car and shouted at young children whacking their mules with big thick sticks, but are just met with incredulous looks. Do the Imams in the mosques ever remind the worshippers that they should be compassionate towards animals?? Don't get me wrong - we have seen a very small minority who do look after their horses, and the difference in the animal is immediately apparent. Going back to the subject of the zoo - it should just be closed down and the animals moved if possible, if there are no plans to improve the situation there. I wonder if there is some organisation, like the World Wildlife Fund who might step in? If they were to embarrass the country maybe something could be done? I still remember the poor bears just rocking non-stop from side to side, a clear sign of distress. Our daughter was very upset.

You said:
"Do the Imams in the mosques ever remind the worshippers that they should be compassionate towards animals?? "

I say no. They are too bizzy issuing Fatwas on weither a woman should cover the totality of her face, or just up to her eyes? or whether she should work with man in the same office, or have separate offices, males and females offices, and other ESSENTIAL "rules" that without them Islam as a religion would be in joepardy.
ANIMAL CRUALTY, HUMAN RIGHTS, CHILD ABUSE, ABJECT POVERTY, LACK OF DEMOCRACY AND LACK OF SOCIAL JUSTICE, CORRUPTION,ETC....i COULD GO ON FOREVER, BUT ALL YOU HAVE TO DO, IS OPEN THE CORAN, AND YOU WILL FIND ALL THESE ISSUES TALKED ABOUT AND EMPHISIZED OVER AND OVER. BUT SOMEHOW, THESE ISSUES DON'T SEEM TO CATCH OUR OULIMAS ATTENTION, LET ALONE BE OF ANY PRIORITY TO THEIR HIGHNESSES.

AYNAKA YA OMAR?????!!!

Yes Racines,

Sadly your comments are all true. I am going to look up a registered charity in the UK in a moment, who intervene in cases like this, in zoos all over the World. I will see if there is anything that can be done regarding Rabat. Will keep you posted of any outcome.

the majority of the Morrocans are morons... they dont care about nature... they want technology, fashion crap, girls, beers, alcohol, big cars, stars, discos...

they wont spend a peny to see a tiger... they are miserable people...

they will do anything to date a girl... spending tons of money on a meal... but to spend 20Dh to go to the zoo? come on... they wont do that...

so... the zoo isnt making any money, so of course it's awful...
i'm still waiting for the law pushing people to read books... and a ban on egyptian TV... to add more cultural stuff...

This is really a shame as I also have good memories visiting this zoo a a child. I am not sure this is a money issue otherwise how come that zoo was in much better shape decades ago? Personally I believe it could be mismanagement or worst another illustration of corruption. There is an organization in Morocco that is supposed to tyake care of abused animals, one of my friend volunteers for them and I will inform her of the above.

@ Racines,
You hit it right on the nose. Your answer was funny and SO true! Didn't you know that the heart of Islam is hijab and women and no longer the traditional 5 pillars?? Thanks for your contribution.

Yes, and while we are on the subject of humour......there was one very funny highlight of our otherwise miserable visit - when the male lion, who was being horibly tormented by a group of visitors, turned his back to them and sprayed urine all over them! Ever smelt how horrible a tom cat pongs? Just imagine a lion's urine then!

Quote
LeMask
the majority of the Morrocans are morons... they dont care about nature... they want technology, fashion crap, girls, beers, alcohol, big cars, stars, discos...

they wont spend a peny to see a tiger... they are miserable people...

they will do anything to date a girl... spending tons of money on a meal... but to spend 20Dh to go to the zoo? come on... they wont do that...

so... the zoo isnt making any money, so of course it's awful...
i'm still waiting for the law pushing people to read books... and a ban on egyptian TV... to add more cultural stuff...

most moroccan are morons?
as sensible as ever! go on LeMask.

Quote
LeMask
the majority of the Morrocans are morons... they dont care about nature... they want technology, fashion crap, girls, beers, alcohol, big cars, stars, discos...

they wont spend a peny to see a tiger... they are miserable people...

they will do anything to date a girl... spending tons of money on a meal... but to spend 20Dh to go to the zoo? come on... they wont do that...

so... the zoo isnt making any money, so of course it's awful...
i'm still waiting for the law pushing people to read books... and a ban on egyptian TV... to add more cultural stuff...

I'm always gobsmacked when i read such comments! the majority of moroccans want girls, beer, alcohol, fashion crap??? where did you get this idea from? how long have you lived in Morocco ? and on what criteria have you based your "survey" which concluded that nearly all Moroccans are morons?? no sir, the majority of Moroccans dream of a decent life and that's about it, they'd like to be respected and treated as human beings, they aspire to a better social life, health system, education for their kids. The people you are referring to are a minority, they've got money to spend on what you describe as crap and good for them, we can't all be or have the same. 20dhs is too much money to spend for some you know, let alone spending it on a zoo nearly bare of animals and when the condition of the animals remind the people of their own situation. I'm afraid the law you are awating won't fall from the sky, it will be made by people, the people you describe as morons! so i guess there isn't much hope out there hein? you want people to read books, and be intersting in culture, but what's the point of culture if at the end we don't respect each other,and become ungrateful to our parents and the country that educated us and made us what we are today?

Minniemouse? i lived in Morroco since... forever, and i'm in france to study... it will be 3years this summer.

and i know the Morrocans... put a library, and they wont put a foot inside it... but open a bar or a pub... and you will have problem controling the crowd...

they dont care about nature, animals... look at the TV. advertising, and egyptian soap operas... look at the Morrocan Websites...

they want money... alcohol, sex, jewelry... drugs... anyway, they arent spiritual or intellectual...

i went to the Louvre Museum last week, no one of my Morrocan friends accepted to come... i called two french friends and they accepted.
once I received a Morrocan friend... we went to some places, and guess what? he knew nothing correct about them, he took pictures (of him) to impress some random chicks...
but he knew everything about night clubs and discos... nothing to teach him...

we lost the love for knowledge, for books... for sport... for health too...

i hate how the country is... and excuse me, but a large part of the country cant read a book... and that makes them morons... not?

i'm sorry guys, sorry to break your little hearts, but yeah, we have plenty of dumb people in our country... but dont worry, we arent alone.

and by the way, they wont pay a 20Dh ticket to the Zoo... but they will buy a 150Dh drink in La Noté, or Reserve or Amnézia...
just name it...

here is something that makes you wonder:

'The 164-year-old London Zoo, which twice in the last 14 months has declared it would have to close because of poor attendance and revenues, has won another stay of execution, thanks to a $1.85 million gift today from the Emir of Kuwait. Declaring the zoo in Regent's Park a "value to the whole world," officials at the Kuwaiti Embassy handed over a check this afternoon to Sir John Chapple, the Zoological Society president. Zoo officials said the money, which the Kuwait Government said could be spe...

June 25, 1992

thank you lemask. you are absolutely correct

Quote
LeMask
Minniemouse? i lived in Morroco since... forever, and i'm in france to study... it will be 3years this summer.

and i know the Morrocans... put a library, and they wont put a foot inside it... but open a bar or a pub... and you will have problem controling the crowd...

they dont care about nature, animals... look at the TV. advertising, and egyptian soap operas... look at the Morrocan Websites...

they want money... alcohol, sex, jewelry... drugs... anyway, they arent spiritual or intellectual...

i went to the Louvre Museum last week, no one of my Morrocan friends accepted to come... i called two french friends and they accepted.
once I received a Morrocan friend... we went to some places, and guess what? he knew nothing correct about them, he took pictures (of him) to impress some random chicks...
but he knew everything about night clubs and discos... nothing to teach him...

we lost the love for knowledge, for books... for sport... for health too...

i hate how the country is... and excuse me, but a large part of the country cant read a book... and that makes them morons... not?

i'm sorry guys, sorry to break your little hearts, but yeah, we have plenty of dumb people in our country... but dont worry, we arent alone.

and by the way, they wont pay a 20Dh ticket to the Zoo... but they will buy a 150Dh drink in La Noté, or Reserve or Amnézia...
just name it...

I guess what you are telling us is that morrocans are normal people then.

Take any country in the world. A pub (or café) will always be more popular than a library. (and I think you are exagerating the nb of morroccans drinking alcohol)

Regarding the Louvre, if you called me that day I would undoubtedly have said no as well. I went there many many times but only when I received a visit from overseas. I would even say that I would find the idea of going there with a friend who lives in Paris plain silly.

Regarding girls, it's just human nature, any young man will be interested in girls, the opposite is true as well. There is nothing shocking or surprising here. I guess it is true for you as well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2007 10:11 by Passerby.

Passerby, i will have no mercy toward the Morrocans...
i dont care if the french spend time in a café or in bar... it's their culture.

but we are Muslims for god sake. we shouldnt loose so many people in the roads because of alcohol...

we should love reading, working, spending time with our families, spending time trying to understand the universe and the creation of god...

i dont care if we arent so different... we should be better than that. 100 times better...

so sorry, but i'm depressed when i remember that there is plenty of "Muslims" who cant read... sorry to be sad when i see a bar in the corner of a street in Rabat. sorry if i get depressed when i see more people in a disco then in a zoo. sorry when i get depressed when i see my friends heading to the beach to see girls rather than to take a swim. sorry to get depressed when my friends get mad because a beggar asked them for a coin while i know that they spent more than 200dh to get a piece of meat made by some already rich spanish dude...

it's depressing... we dont reach 1% of our potential...

so i want to kick the first dude saying that a country like ours is poor... we are rich, we have plenty of young people ready to work. but we are under-developped... in our heads.

Hi all,

Quote
LeMask
Minniemouse? i lived in Morroco since... forever, and i'm in france to study... it will be 3years this summer...

...i dont care if the french spend time in a café or in bar... it's their culture...

you don't care about the frensch people but you're spending 3 years in their contry studiying....if you don't recognise their culture what are you doing in their country???...but that's what makes theim more forther than we are....you need theim and that what you will never get....long discussions by the end you can't go one step without them.....makes your ideas each time less credible than before......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/2007 12:19 by Ilhem2.

Ilhem2? you must be really mad at me.
i said that i dont care about what the french are doing. for them, enjoying life is spending money and having fun in a café...

good for them. but i have my own definition of enjoying life.

and please, express your complex somewhere else... you think that you are inferior to the french? okay! your opinion, but it's not mine. they are better than you if you say so...
but i dont think so... i dont judge people like you do. they can be rich, but if they dont have good moral values, they are like rats to me...

it takes more than a shiny dress to impress me.

i can"t beleave a morrocan is saying such things regarding morrocans
when you want things to change work on it positivly. Blablabla never resolved problems
act man, action, is the power and the futur for a better life.

Look guys - people are the same wherever you go, in whichever country. You get good, bad and indifferent. That's life. However.....to get back to the original subject of the zoo, I have found the website address for the charity which looks after animals Worldwide. It's wspa.org.uk Some of you may find it interesting to take a look.

If anyone doesn't think animals matter, I find that people who care about animals tend to be people who care about humans too.

Have a nice day!

Salam All, listen up : The whole Morocco's a huge zoo, a habitat to be more precise, you folks have to know something , i mean for those who've been away for years and they still got the same old picture, i tell you that nothing has really changed since then, well, let's say somethings like women can go half- stripped and stroll down the streets, mobile phones, internet, Nike, Burberry, limousines, hummers,... we can go anyplace without being arrested to be interviewed ...almost anyplace ( people in Figuig & Bou3arfa know what i'm talking about ), you know stuff like that...but the core of a real change is still "untouched" : democracy and especially JUSTICE !!! we still live the same old story, justice is the key word that makes all the difference, how can they take care of animals in Morocco while a large layer of Moroccan (humans) are treated like the animals of the zoo you're talking about? seriously, guys, we still have carts, we export donkeys, we're n°1 ( to france and Spain for touristic purposes and they're luckier than millions of Moroccans who envy'em ! some wish they were donkeys wallah), we've got families who live in public toilets( the story of the man in Sala) he's even got his address : toillette publique (mir7adh 3omomi) ....Sala, kingdom of Morocco on his ID CARD s'il vous plait ! ...some near Wrzazat live in caves like their ancestors did since Adam's era, ...wanna more? you'll puke !! and by the way to answer the question of those who were talking about Imams' job to talk about all these things, i tell you this one: those who "dared" talk about FASAD and taboo issues are "enjoying" life in a place where they'd lose their beautiful skin tan-color,...in the big house that is !

Good Morning Shelby, and everyone else,

Don't get too disillusioned about Morocco. We don't live there, that's for sure, but over the last 25 years we have spent a lot of time there, just having returned from a three month stay. I love the Moroccan people, even when they have so little, they are cheerful, very respectful and very hard-working. This is the ordinary, working-class people I am talking about. (The majority, I guess) I don't have a lot of time for the well off, I'm afraid. I know of one so-called religious man, been to Mecca, prays etc, who when we visited one Aid, had 6 sheep grazing in his garden, yet didn't pay his building workers so none of them could buy a sheep!!! These rich, you can see them in the supermarkets ordering their maids about as if they owned them. That makes my blood boil!

Shelby, why is it taboo to talk about kindness to living creatures in a mosque? I don't understand that statement.

lurcher21? there is no such thing... there is no taboo, you can talk about the animals in a mosque, there is no problem. as Muslims, we are supposed to treat the animals correctly (in a human way).

but we arent talkin about that. i'm talking about the behavior of the society.
to put it simple, we are behaving like dogs... our people dont care about nature.

they dont care about education, we think about money money money...
if i take the part of society that the zoo should be targeting, and i mean by that, those who can spend some money to have some fun...
these wont put a peny to see any kind of animal... it's a waste of time.

people dont go to school to learn, but just to get good grades and some paper work to get a job...
and to job isnt a real work, it's just a gift... a salary at the end of the month. and they try hard to do as little as possible, because the salary will be theirs whatever the tasks they finish... they dont care as long as they arent fired.

they dont care, most are worthless scum... they have no education, no culture, no good morals... just pityful...

and believe me, i spent my life next to such scum bags... and they will never get better. if you tell them "i think you should try to open your mind and learn about some new stuff, you dont know a lot"... he wont take a book or anything, he wont even think that you were talking about that... no! it's not logic in his mind to be criticized about a lack of knowledge in history or science... he will try to learn about a singer, or a new kind of music...

they are slaves in their minds... their families control a large part of Morroco's economy. but all they care about his fashion stuff... politics, laws, religion, culture... all of this is boring... what is important, is to "seem cool"...
having sex with 10 different girls in one night is very cool...
reading a book is saaaad... and boring...
spending 6hours on the highway to spend an evening in a disco in Marrakesh is COOL...
waking up in the morning to go to the zoo is for idiots and stupid kids...
talking about what David Bowie eats in the morning is cool...
talking about politics is boring...
buying some fashion crap from a chinese artist (ying and yang symbols on a carpet) is awesome...
talking about chinese history is for these uncool teachers...

go ahead dude, go ask a girl "what do you do in life?"... she will tell you "i study marketing... i dont understand a lot, but i think that i will make enough money in the future... i know Rachid, his father is a minister... i know the bouncers at X disco, they let me enter without checking me. i know lamia the daughter of X... her boyfriend got a nice car... oh my god, you should see his house... and bla bla bla..."

please dont get me wrong... i'm not an intellectual elite or something... but it's just crazy... and you dont know about this important part of Morroco...
i saw tons of money spent on ... nothing...
and i saw tons of young people, who have their lives completely screwed... and i know, that some of these possess a large part of our country...

Salam All !!
lurcher21 : Islam was the first to talk about kindness towards animals and all living creatures, and i ain't gonna tell you about all the ahadeeths and Quranic verses that concerns this issue, you gotta learn about'em in books, and let me tell something yesterday (friday) i attended a khotbah about respecting animals and never hurt them...i actually felt bored not because of the khotba itself but because , well it's like telling a poor man not to wear silky threads !!!, how shameful ! the country's on the edge of a volcano and some wise imams are talking about animals as if it's the only thing left to be prosperous ! i don't think a zoo is what we need in this country, we've already got a big one : the whole Morocco's a zoo dude ! we've got more than 70 percent of Moroccans who are illeterate and you're talking about stuff like that, it's so pathetic ! some assholes in Morocco got enough money to buy Nevada while the majority of the population bust their asses off to get a loaf and a glass of tea, and by the way Morocco's n°1 when it comes to importing tea not because we're challenging Englishmen but because tea has become our blood, and he who doesn't drink tea everyday's a rich person( since he's got enough dough to drink milk, coffee, juices,eye-openers, whiskeys.. you name it ...tea's for parties and ceremonies),and to sum up animals are better off in their original environements and habitats not behind bars, Morocco's got a long way to go to develop the human, animals come second !

shelby? please remember that we are Muslims, we dont look on rich people because they are rich.

god gives the wealth, not us. we arent communists, we dont ask people to ride a donkey until we spend enough on schools...

but we can criticize their attitude, and the fact that they spend tons of money in clothing and nothing when it comes to culture.
and yes, visiting a zoo is like spending money on a book, you learn about nature, about the animals... and you spend time with your family...

and these things disappeared. and i ask you to look at your own families. how many of you love to have dinner with your parents? rather than in front of TV? in my home, we have 5 TVs... for 5people... when we eat, nobody is happy, one wants pasta, one tajine, other salad only... so everyone makes his own food and eats in front of TV... and each have to see his own TV because they dont like the program... dad wants to see the news, my brother some car racings... and my sister some french dumb serie...

they spend time together anymore...

we lost respect for the traditional values... like the respect of the elders and such...

and i'm not alone in this situation, everyone of my friends have the same problems... and far worse...

they wont care about animals or nature with such mindset...

Hi everyone,

LeMask,
I’m not made at you simply coz I don’t care about you!! …. for my complexes…plz check the definition of complexes before you talk about it…. psychology is not a matter of everyone.. you seem don’t know what are talking about….


lurcher21,
sorry for changing your subject …it wasn’t my attention…. as for the zoo…I think as long as people in our country are still fighting with hunger and poverty they won’t care about animals …some times, as you’ve mentioned for the house maids, they even don’t care about human being….how could we expect of them to care about animals?…. this is a matter of education….difficult to educate people who still not get enough to eat…..



racines,
I appreciate your point of view…reflects truly the reality….

I don't think they are all as bad as you are making them out to be (except, perhaps, the drivers - but that's another story!) So what do you suggest is the answer to the problem of the zoo? Build yet more huge villas to add to the concrete jungle?? Like in the words of the Cat Stevens song - ''Tell me, where do the children play?'' The zoo should be a lovely place for families to spend time together out in the fresh air (precious little of THAT in Rabat!), have a picnic, etc. It was once.

Quote
lurcher21
I don't think they are all as bad as you are making them out to be (except, perhaps, the drivers - but that's another story!) So what do you suggest is the answer to the problem of the zoo? Build yet more huge villas to add to the concrete jungle?? Like in the words of the Cat Stevens song - ''Tell me, where do the children play?'' The zoo should be a lovely place for families to spend time together out in the fresh air (precious little of THAT in Rabat!), have a picnic, etc. It was once.

For your information Lurcher, the Rabat zoo will be destroyed in a few year, a totally new zoo will be built near Témara.