I don't mean to be blunt, but this story sounds as a cliche one: and the fictitious side of it seems to draw attention more than its real side. I have to say the attention to the details in describing the protagonist is amazingly close to a motamarid kind of lover! Add to that, mixing religion, alchohol, drugs and violence as main ingredients of lifeless stories, make this story real yet more suited for soup-opera series.

Age is nothing but that, and the thirties are great, the forties are even better, so I've heard..so don't be afraid of advancing in age, think of the wisdom you gain rather than the wrinkles you retain!

good luck with your plans.

Yani ciao,

I go straight to the point: yes i'm very precise in details when i tent to describe some facts to some person that dont know neither of the "protagonist", i see your view that is:

to look at a personal fact (mine)
(that is arrived at a turning point and that is why i posted)
as a soap opera episode;
and i add a low budget production and low quality actors.

I dont see this alcohol, drugs and violence as main ingredients, but if that is what you took most out from my story, may be i described it so, or you misunderstood something.
Anyway life is much much more incredible than soap operas as you may know, life presents you some of the most incredible situation as in love, work, everyday issues and so on.
Fantasy cannot even go closer to reality. No way!

Reagrding your written on age i think you were referring to Laure21 when she wrote ".....you'll end up older...." IF i will ever decide to "give it a go" using Laure21 words, although i hate so much this phrase, i will test him for one year. That's it. One years trial..... sound like those warranty when purchase something....feel like laughing!
If in that year he does not show me what he could do for me, and for us, and why not for himself too, i'm out.
That could be a solution.
But still in my limbo of thoughts, one day bad, the other good....

LAURE21 i sent you a pvt mess answer please!

With my wish for a good tuesday to everybody,

ma'ssalama, Georgina

Georgina's story, is interesting but all I can think of this sweet intelligent girl getting involved with a real LOSER...and she cannot see it...
I must have more common sense than the average woman, since I would smell a loser 10 miles away and I think I deserve better...So does Georgina..

Georgina please please please don't marry that LOSER...please I beg of you....

Hi folks,
it's really hard to make judgements and even give an opinion in a case like this.The fact that we really don't know the guy and how he really is don't allow us to judge him without the risk to be unfair to him.After listening to Georgina we should listen to Fattah's version too to be able to make statements.
Maybe he has good intentions maybe not.But it's always better to consider people having good intentions rather than the contrary...
I'm a young Moroccan living in Florence,Italy and i know how bad and wrong ideas Italians have about us...it's unfair...The fact that moroccan immigration to Italy is essentially an immigration of low skilled and analphabet people doesn't help much to change the situation as italians tend to generalise.
Also The fact that our country is suffering from a bad economic crisis that pushes our young people to go overseas to look for a chance doesn't mean that we should do anything to survive...every human being must absolutely have basic principles that differenciates him from wild animals(even if animals following their instincts act better than we do sometimes)...these basic principles are generally the same in all civilised nations.You may call it Islam or conscience or something else...but it's the same.I really wanna tel Fattah If this girl is really loving you,ready to help you and she is really devoted. please don't make use of her and once you achieve your goal of having papers you throw her like a used object '.There are a lot of ways to have documents in italy without the need to hurt a sincere person.
For Georgina i also wanna say : 'devi seguire il tuo cuore in questo caso.Se segui il tuo cervello allora forse c'é il N0 '.
Cordiali saluti,
Nader.
BONNE FETE A TOUT LE MONDE.

Hey Nader,
great description of moroccan immigrants here in Italy. AND being animalist i agree with you 100% that animals sometimes act in a better way than us, Human beings....

I honestly think that i am also giving a too high value on this future wedding. i mean sometimes i would love to be able to say to myself "Do it! if it goes, good, if it doesnt, good either" but although i aint a "church attender" or a "bible reader", guesting the Pope here in Italy gives me that feeling that we all , or the majority anyway, have regarding the "Marriage"in my country, and Nader since you live in italy, you may know what i am talking about....
As does Gabry.

Thank you for the very nice and sincere thoughts.

Hello georgine,

I have a suggestion for you: tell him that our children won't be muslims, if this didn't bothers him, that mean that you need to think twice before getting married whit him.

wish you good

Dear Georgina,
i read your first and second letter,
what do i think about your situation with that guy abdelfatah:
first at all you must know what do you really want , and not to consider the fear of hurting him or losing him if you do consider that you love him there's a way to find if does really love you:
ask him to return back in morrocco and to live there together, then you can see the guy in his real environment and how he interact with.second thing you must be aware of that you'll live in difficile conditions with him in morrocco, if both of you can afford this experience without fear. i think it'll be ok for you to get married to this guy.
Georgina i'm morroccan i studied in france for 10 years i left europe for africa i lived in madagascar for 8 years and now i'm moving to mali bamako and i think i'll never return back living in europe even for ten times salary mine now.
think about it if your guy can live with you in morrocco then he's the right one for you

Sigerrex I never know Moroccan in Mali, or even in Madagascer ..will to go my friend.

i just dont share your comment to Georgina. I was following her treath... Georgina loves Fatah for bad and good ,Fatah is giving her some Moroccan spices that she can´t live with out.

I am happy for her, i just hope she see it her self, other ways she has something she is not tellinf us, and i am noisy guy i wanna know a lot..hehehhe.

I have felling Georgina dont trust that guy, for some reason and need us to convince her, whitch is looking for bla bla in silent world.

is her dicision and i fell she has to take decision before is to late.

aziz_dk






Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2005 12:16 by aziz_dk.

Jilo jilo .. georgina is smart girl she tried that.. she is a an old patriot she know what she is doing.

she is taking mariage as biz decission ..i just fell like regardless what she is thinking consequences is toltaly different, o

she may find out that Fatah loves her more than she ever dream.. or my be he is just one ****** try to get paper.. but only GUd know what inside people heart.

aziz_dk



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2005 12:15 by aziz_dk.

dear aziz
you've got to expand your horizons, if you have ever been in africa you know what i mean. so concerning Georgina she's a mature woman... she'll do what she has to do....

Ciao.... Salaam

it is nice to still receive your appreciated opinion after such a long time since i posted the thread....

Jilo_Jilo:
regarding the fact that our eventual children won't be muslims he does NOT accept at all, he pretends that his children, no matter the religion of the mother will be muslims. On this he has been clear and strict from the very beginning.

When wondering if we would have a daughter, and she would eventually fall in love with an Italian what would he do? he says she will decide what to do after having received an islamic education.
You know guys about a year ago the news reported the death of a young moroccan girl 14 y.o. beaten to death by kicking and punching received from her own father because she had a crush on an italian boy that was her schoolmate.
I'm pretty much sure that there was no real intention of killing the girl but still the outcome is terrible...and it gives me shiver just to think about it.....s.
Of course that touched me more than another italian that would have nothing to do with moroccans....
At this point i had to listen to the cry and the shouting of my mama saying "this could happen to your children too, they are crazy, they are muslims, he will love islam more than you he will take the children to his mother in morocco if you dont bend and cancel completely your personality to his.....and bla bla bla,"



Sigerrez:
i answer you in a bit!!!! Busy at work today!!!!

Till later...

Sigerrez,
ask him to go back and live in morocco? First i would never go right now, live where? in his family house? no way too small! And how would we survive?
He keeps telling me there is no work, at least here i am working and feeding everybody....

Jesus Christ.....

Just to update everybody, my wedding with Fattah was/is planned on the 19 of this current month, he kept telling me i should not say nothing to my parents in case they would have reacted badly, he thought it was better to tell them when "the bun was already in the oven"
To my astonishment i told him "No @#&^% way".

Although my parents always refused to meet him, he never insisted on meeting my parents and go to them with his heart in his hand explaining our plans. I did ask him but he said "i have nothing nothing to show to your parents right now, i cannot go in front of them, i dont feel at ease"

Well few nites ago, since my bros were all out i took the occasion, asa i started my papa shouting "Are you pregnant?" ....... "If you go ahead with the weddingYou are Not my daugter no more, you marry him i dont wanna see you in this house no more....you will have to knock on the door before entring this door, give me the keys back" and so on, well he was a bit hard coz of the shock but let's say 50% he really means what he sais, and my mother saying "Do you really wanna ruin your life so much with a sans papier, of course he is nice with you, he would obtain so much, you are beautiful he doesnt even has to think about someone else or turn his head away when kissing you or ___...ecceccecc"

I dont know if i wrote this but fattah next time he meets a serious cop he is in jail and then sent back to morocco with the intimacy of 5 or 10 yars prohibition to go back to italy.

the fear of loosing my parents and to be thrown out of the house is getting my head.

You have answered your own questions Georgina - if you have the slightest doubt inside you that you may not be doing the right thing, then don't do it.

Hi Georgina

I hope you are keeping well !

I do not know why you keep on bringing situation involving Moroccans to judge your man , you do not trust this guy!

Ok! some Moroccan father hit his daughter ...bla bla ,Morocinos did this & that its always a focus on the negatives , as you know these situations do happen with non muslims too ! yes Domestic violance ,theft ,.bal bla ........

I have a feeling you have travelled & seeing a lot ,so do not let the typical Italians views affect you please !

I know that in Italy people get residencia when the authorities ask them to prouve they are working ...ect why dont you support your Man to apply this way ,he gets his papers & stay living together until you are sure his the man for you !

If we all looked at negatives we wont live together or tolerate each other , we have good & bad in every nation ,creed ,relegions ,country ........

ciao

you're the only one to know the answer that u need don't wait that others bring u the suitable solution.........am not against helping u but trust me so deep inside ofu the answer is so clear just don't try to turn out of it....

----------------
Thalasso Tunisie

Pourtoi, please don't judge all Italians by one person's stupidity...We are a lot smarter than that. Vive l'Italie

Eva007_jt:
thank you, yes i probably know this, but in this period i seem to look for other people view on it.
I know the answer is inside me....seems impossible for me to focus.
I would never have launched the subject if feeling different on this...

Pourtoi, as you did already everytime we exchange some msg, you seem so wise and sensible.... I happen to look to the 100000 of negative stories around between interracial and interfaith relationships.

You know, differently from other women, for example fat americans via the net, beer lovers australian and hopeless canadians, and also i have to say like my yabiladienne Gabri, that is looking for a Moroccan man somehow, i have never looked for an exotic man like a moroccan for example or a tunisian that is soooo close to italy, or else.
He simply entered into my life and at the beginning i was very aware of these things we would have gone through eventually ans that we are gone throught now....
And to specify about the permit of stay, yes it works like this, but fattah entered illegally and was caught several time as an illegal so next time he is put in jail and the back to bled!

Gabri for your aknowledgement yabiladienne means "paesana mia"

And Gabri please you may think very different from me, since we exchanged some msg in pvt i can honestly tell you:
Escuse me, bella: You are not entitled to call me stupid coz although my actual situation is terrible i certainly prefer it to your one.
Dont you think everytime you state something you always have that "mother to son" attitude, and also superiority feeling of yourself?


I only agree with you on your last quote "Vive L'Italie", and i still live in my own country and i thank God for this.

Hi Gabri

I did not generalise on my intervation , i only stated facts that i know , i have lived & know about from my visits to Italy .

I know that not all Italians are the same t but a large part of them do not know & do not want to tolerate others ,i also know that a large part of the Morrocans in Italy did not do much for our image ,this was due to the fact that the first immigrants were illitrats & they come from parts of the country where they lead a harsh life .

You said viva Italia , i so ok Viva Italia & Viva Morocco & the World ,we need to learn & teach tolerance & accepetance as you know its easy to critise others but its very hard to help the change .

To Georgina

thanks for your kind words & good luck with what ever you decide , i know that you could still help your man if you still fell for him
you know the story of the cup , we could see it half full or half empty & relations in general are very complex & no doubt with different faiths ,backgrounds ...its not easy but never impossible ,i know of a lots of very succesfull ones .

ciao

Pourtoi, are you familiar with the expression " To beat a dead horse "?
Its when someone keeps on hammering at the same trite subject , which by now nobody wants to hear about..Enough already....
There's so much in life we should direct our attention to...different issues which are really important and interesting...The problem is idleness creates frustration, like when people have nothing to do they sit and anylize and waste energy , anyway I enjoy reading Posts by intelligent people and I have learned a lot , and gotten great websites from Yabiladi moroccan members..
Thank you all so much....

Hello Gabri

Thank you , i 'am really sorry but if you think that trying to integrate ,tolerante ,share ,exchange & live together are waste of time !
Please forgive me but i desagree with you totally & i love to hear from you on how we sort out all these problems we have & the fear some of us live in , look around you to see it & hear it all ..

Gabri you criticize me so much, ok, fine, i got no problem on that, you stated already what i should do for you and that is (your words): LEAVE THAT LOSER.

You know it would be very easy for me to insult you as you do with me, even harder, but i will not follow your path

And please tell me something: since you are looking for intelligent posts then why the hell do you lose your precious time in this (your words) "trite subject", at least i have one, darling.


I already understood why you surf on Yabiladi anyway....
And i aint the only one.

As said before your harsh words toward me in particular demonstrate only that:
you too would love to have a beautiful, young, strong, sweet, exotic, dark skinned, loving care moroccan holding you as i have my own one.
Having gone through a divorce and feeling old probably, you feel you failed and i can certainly understood that, but please i did nothing to you dear, so calm down, have a camomile and take it easy. Relax!

The thread was posted loooong time ago and picked up again from someone so that i answered.

Stated that i do not have nothing in contrary in reading your words, untill you use a conmmon sense of behaviour, you know what: just because on the net the identity is hidden that does not allow you and anybody else to be rude and above all arrogant.






As for the others that exchanged their opinion with me, i still love Fattah very much and i see/feel/smell his love toward me. I got really touched from some arranged wedding avec sans papiers and got emotionally involved......
I agree with the advises given from someone that i should stick to my own experience.

I will keep the thread updated and, although i may know my sitaution may sound weird to somebody, i will happily read everybody's words Without Insulting Please.

With the wish of a beautiful sunny and warm day, as we have here in Italy today,

i send my ciao to you!!! Ma'ssalama.

gabri a écrit:
> There's so much in life we should direct our
> attention to...different issues which are really
> important and interesting...

See it? gabri go and find your moroccan wang somewhere else please!!!!
Not on this thread, the moroccan guy described here is already knotted!!!!

Since you have such a "high & pure soul" commit yourself to some charity project or some advises for broken heart, i tell you what: why dont you open up your own web site and create ONLY real intelligent and deep subject with a intellingent test to be passed before entering your domain, so you will only exchange whatever subjects with people worthy your uncommon and great level of intelligence!!!

the marriage date is tomorrow, tell us how things are updated.

Georgina


All the best for tomorrow , i hope its a sunny day & that you get to enjoy the rest of life with your man.


Congratulations

Pourtoi, thanks for your comment..In my last Post I was not referring to
tolerance, integration , sharing as boring subjects. You misunderstood..
I am all for that, and I practice every day..I don't look for anything specific on this moroccan Forum but to learn and understand how another culture feels,
as I do with other cultures....I hope you don't think there is something wrong with that....Peace and love to all moroccan members...Ciao

Gabri

No warm done ,enjoy the forum & as some one mentioned before we are Earthians !

In the forum you will meet & lear about a lots of differents cultures !

Love & Peave

Georgina a écrit:
-------------------------------------------------------
>".........
>
> Well few nites ago, since my bros were all out i
> took the occasion, asa i started my papa shouting
> "Are you pregnant?" ....... "If you go ahead with
> the weddingYou are Not my daugter no more, you
> marry him i dont wanna see you in this house no
> more....you will have to knock on the door before
> entring this door, give me the keys back" and so
> on, well he was a bit hard coz of the shock but
> let's say 50% he really means what he sais, and my
> mother saying "Do you really wanna ruin your life
> so much with a sans papier, of course he is nice
> with you, he would obtain so much, you are
> beautiful he doesnt even has to think about
> someone else or turn his head away when kissing
> you or ___...ecceccecc"
>
> .....


I just can not immagine how can you accept that your parents talk about the man you love like this........no matter the circomstances ......Unbelievable !!!!!!!!!!

Ciao Georgina,

I just stumbled over your post and your possible marriage dilemma. Years have passed by now and I wonder, how did you decide back then? Did you end up marrying Fattah, perhaps you have children together?
Generally how did things develop for you both. I am very interested to hear if you would like to share.

Much love and many greetings!!