Morocco # English board

hi everyone,

I’ve seen a programme about the evangelicals missioners in Morocco....they are from different country.... work in the dark und underground to convert Moroccans "Muslims" to Christianity and they have a lot of success....they are taking many risks to establish underground churches.....a lot of men and women are converted.....i’m just wondering if they became Christians because they really believe on it or simply because they got financial help from the missioners?.....they could risk the jail or to be killed...... I believe it’s a big issue in Morocco.....

Nothing will surprise me about what Moroccan can do to get a better life, or even just to get a paid meal.

I know the "Witness of jehovas" has missioners in Rabat and Casablanca, I do believ some Moroccan do follow them in ordre to get some fianical support or help to get abroad.

I m very sorry for them, who has to sell their soul just to get something in the future.

Yes that is a big problem in Moroccan and is getting bigger so fare the poverty in grewiong. I do believe the gouverment does know about the underground churches, but kepping low profile so long they are paying rent and spending money in the country.

Moroccan gouverment never care about Moroccan! you can became christian or jew, just dont became a Muslim fanatic and you are save.

HI Ilham2,

I have a question, how do you know that they got financial help from missioners to convert to christianity? is it an assumption or you can back it up with proofs?
thank you :$

hi,

It seems as muslims will never be free ,even after death. The tyrants will follow the muslims and force them to live as they want them to, in this world and in the world to come if there is one.

the problem is the people who receive more support from USA are the Only one who talk about freedom in our time .

I like the way this hate mongering people go to different websites and spew their hate on moslems for the couple pennies they receive. the other day, the former president of USA Jimmy Carter uncovered the truth about the christian Utopia. they had more than 2 billion dollars financing from GW Bush. it is clear proof of new crusaders era leaded by the dumbest president on Earth and in the history of USA.

for Ilhem, yes it is about who got more money will attempt to buy others. I just do not think it will last forever. those who pay the money, will command some return back. and I'm sure they will get nothing back. those poor people who accept the offer has nothing to offer back to the Emperor. later the Emperor gonna be changed and the new one will chase the christian Utopia for the failure of the operation. give it 4 to 10 years more, you will see them crying on this failure operation. the statistic proved that from $100 given to missionaires, only 3 dollars reach the poor. it's a new robbery of the American taxpayers by the zealous christians with the blessing of Bush...

The poor Jehovah's Witnesses have to find a market somewhere after all. They have probably only gone to Morocco to get away from all the 'No Jehovah's Witnesses' signs on peoples' doors in the UK! (Joke)

Dears
We do have christians who convert to Islam and this is an individual choise
and we do have muslims who do have the right to convert to whatever other religion.
So what ???
Free yourself from being hostage of this kind of thinking and be a smart and tolerant muslim.

It is not your business and you are just waisting time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2006 09:03 by Krim.

Dear Krim, just get life? we do not speak about people who practice whatever they want. we talk about an army of missionaries sent from America arround the world to bargain "food for christianity". that's a real problem: don't forget between 50 000 to 100 000 pedofile priests and preachers and why they are motivated to go after kids in Africa and other places? I'm sure they are true criminals and they must be brought to justice one day. they have nothing to do with religion, they just hold the name christian and get supported from American taxpayers to go do other things.

hi everyone,

Quote
Krim
Dears
We do have christians who convert to Islam and this is an individual choise
and we do have muslims who do have the right to convert to whatever other religion.
So what ???
Free yourself from being hostage of this kind of thinking and be a smart and tolerant muslim.

It is not your business and you are just waisting time.

Dear krim,


I agree with you.... we have to be tolerant….believe me or not I’m …I even have atheist friends …I got no problem with that…you know why? Because it’s their choice as you said….what we have here is the opposite….people who has no choice when they‘re hungry… pretending to be interested in an other religion to get something to eat…..what worries me is not Moroccan getting converted to other religion but what worries me is the fact that other peopole abusing of their poverty under the name of the relegion ….you thing this is right?...... it may be not your business…but it’s my business to think about the problems of my people…..

Quote
aziz_dk
Nothing will surprise me about what Moroccan can do to get a better life, or even just to get a paid meal.

I know the "Witness of jehovas" has missioners in Rabat and Casablanca, I do believ some Moroccan do follow them in ordre to get some fianical support or help to get abroad.

I m very sorry for them, who has to sell their soul just to get something in the future.

Yes that is a big problem in Moroccan and is getting bigger so fare the poverty in grewiong. I do believe the gouverment does know about the underground churches, but kepping low profile so long they are paying rent and spending money in the country.

Moroccan gouverment never care about Moroccan! you can became christian or jew, just dont became a Muslim fanatic and you are save.

I totally agree with you….. it’s really a sad reality for our country……..

it's a reality. lot of fanatic evanglist travel in magreb for installing their religion .

Quote
comeback
it's a reality. lot of fanatic evanglist travel in magreb for installing their religion .

no you can not call them fanatic!!! that's name reserved just to moslems. those are called freedom

Dear Ilhem
These people you want to help are not victims of these christians
from America, but victims of the system they grew in. So the way they think (if they were allowed to think) was determined by other muslims (or supposed muslims). This lack of critical mind make them vulnerable for manipulation. May be they get a chance by dealing with these christians and will rely on themselfs in the future. May be they will stop believing in God, who knows

"Faith Unites people; Religion divides them!"...It seems religion and Islam, in particular is getting more and more Strange, yet, more talked about...even by those who simply inherited it! What good are people who abuse their brothers and sisters and call themselves Muslims/ christians/Jewish...?

Krims point is Valid and worth its weight. It's not a matter of religiousity but humanism, I think. The desperate ones, whereever they are, are more likely to listen to any one who's lending a hand, and that's what they see and crave, rather than what religion the lenders embrace!

I wouldn't consider as serious some one converting from one religion to another for $$ reasons! It's a need based on money, food, better life...and not on a spiritual thirst! So it's all a make belief and a kiss up game! the convert is pleasing the "J Witness" in this case, and the JW knows that but keeps hope that it'll turn out to be a good catch! At the end of the day, I wouldn't trust the whole premise, because religiously, that's a cheat; Financially, that's a waist of money, and may be a receit for the tax payers, but a temporary relief for those the convert!

Fix the system and the rest will take care of itself! Preach HUMANISM because religion is a choice!
Yani

unfortunatly, only premitive people who think someone gonna come from the west to give them money just for thinking. behind the scene, who is going to care to pay you for thinking jesus died on cross?. If to make you think jesus or abbass died for you is what the Utopia of cross worshippers trying to get you do, anybody who read it once, already thought about it. then the whole game should stop there. the pedofilia is booming in USA and those evengelican pedofiles are in competition with the roman catholics one. All will molest your kids and transfer all kind of diseases to your nation for your ignorance and the ignorance of those that you call poor...

the problem of the people who came from Islamic background and fail in love with the western propaganda, they always forget that the west doesn't use the Islamic value who support giving you free stuff in the sake of Allah. the west gives only when he knows he can get more. as soon as you claim your moslem background, you are just sandnigger for the west. then how come you become dumb to the level you think someone who underestimate you will help you?

there are 2 kinds of people in the west: one people believe that christianity is their religion and slaving you is proof that jesus blessed them on Earth. the second people, believe you are just evoluated species and the life is only for the powerful species. a both of them agree that you are an object to use and rid from. of course they hide the truth behind names: freedom, democracy, humanism...

human values is an oxymoron for a both of them! human values is built on give without getting back, something that is considered as losing and they are not able to consider losing anything for you.

[www.alakhbar-u sa.com]

Hi everybody,

Quote
Krim
[www.alakhbar-u sa.com]

I can't open the link ....... is it working...

www.alakhbar-usa.com/journalists1.html



Dear Ilhem
I hope you can read arabic
Ciao



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/16/2006 08:57 by Krim.

Quote
Krim
www.alakhbar-usa.com/journalists1.html



Dear Ilhem
I hope you can read arabic
Ciao

dear krim,

i can read arabic but i can't open it ...it gives me a warning that's an error...don't know!!!

anyway thanks for your efforts....

Dear Ilhem
I tried to copy/paste the article but without success.
Arabic character are transformed in number...
May be someone can help...
Sorry

Cette dame écrit aussi ici. Il faut lire tranquillement.

www.alakhbar-usa.com/journalists1.html

Interesting Link...Though I don't agree with some of the articles on different authors...

Ilham2: right click on your mouse and go to ENCODING it should show you options of Languages...you choose what you're comfortable with

Good read.

Dear Yani
I gave the link just for Dr. Sultan article on the gap between talking and reality.
take care
Krim

Yes it is true. Lately in Maghreb and it is not only Morocco which is concerned. the questions which it is necessary to raise, where are the persons in charge for this countries?. As Morocco for example it is country which is supposed to give the example. but unfortunately nobody moves the fingers, everyone is satisfied to exist alone. Poverty and social misery push people to believe even in Bodha. The missionaries of which you speak gives all: money, promise to work in europe and without this conditions of converting towards the christinism you cannot have that. It is surprising but it is the verity which it makes accept.

Yes, Krim; I know, but I went ahead and read some articles and I of course I read and listened to Dr.Wafaa Sultan...as well. I keep what I think about her for myself, because the conversation about her on the French corner was deviated and took the wrong turn, even here; I beleive, but the webmaster took care of it.

Yani

I thing, anyone has a right to decide his own destiny. And particulary to choose his religion. I don't understand where is the problem.

fatal error !

I think everyone has a right to decide his own destiny. And particulary to choose his religion. I don't understand where is the problem.

hi,

about Dr.Sultan article...


I read the article carefully...basically she is quite right in her analysis...in many points I agree with here...particularly the way we educate our children...our aggressivety handling things...how weak is our social and political systems...but I don’t agree with her when she said we should change completely our way of thinking if we want to solve our problems...”putting new brain in the Arab head” as she formulated it...I think this is exactly the problem…trying to be like someone else with different history, values and social believes...there are so many developed and powerful countries (Japan and Korea ) that still have traditions and customs more than 3000 year old in their society which didn’t got on the way of their development.
I believe we should filter rather than eliminate...what we have is our identity and root...it's the time to improve it and adapt it to the new world but it’s a mistake to give it up completely...the most important now is to react...enough of critics...we need to do something if we want to change something...otherwise it would be the usual babble as she said....

Dear Ilhem
I do not think that Dr. Sultan try to ignore her background. So she said to this ambassador.I prefer to live in my village in Syria with dignity than to be number in the US.A great message expressed in her language, arabic, not english. I think she is talking about logic, commun sense and to be realistic and pragmatic instead of dreaming about our strength. So free thinking and sticking to a lot of books than sticking to one book makes us to be realisitic and having an anlytical mind in the evaluation of our weakness and strength.

Of course I do not agree with her 100%.

Hallo everyone,

Dear Krim,


You probably have heard of Maslow’s pyramid and its hierarchy of needs...short reminder: 5 levels of human needs:
-1st level : the basic physical needs which are water, food...home...ect..
-2nd level : safety needs : economical security, stability...
-3rd level : the social belonging : acceptance and need to be part of successful team (in this case the society )...
-4th level : esteem needs...need to have special competences and high skills to attract others admiration in order to achieve certain power...

-finally 5the level: need of self actualisation...people who have a lot (I’m not necessarily talking about money)...who achieved a lot but need to become more and more... in other words maximising their potential and success...this higher level is quite complex...needs more knowledge and characterised with logical, realistic and deep analytic thinking to adapt oneself to the new challenges...the most important in Maslow’s pyramid as most of you know is that you can’t move from one level to the next unless you satisfy its conditions...this lead to the following question: how to think logically being realistic and with sens of pragmatic if you still fighting how are you going to feed your family?...having no safety or social security....unknowing where do you belong in the society and having no self nor others esteem in your country and in the rest of the world?...

we still haven't achieved the basic needs for our people...so how to expect from them to think logically....or to think at all?!!!....we still have 4 level to achieve this target...this is quite loooooooong way....