Morocco # English board

assalm' alikom everybody,

Please halt one minute, i'm not talking about Moroccans as individuals or even society but the state governing system and people who has set and create it.

Let's have a look first at some of constitution articles:

ARTICLE 6: ISLAM SHALL BE THE STATE RELIGION.

Just one case from many: in our country more than 131 millions of liquor battles are sold
every year. The average consumption of every citizen is 4 liters per year. 80 billions cent
is the net benefit going to state treasury. In our country rarely when cha'aria law is
implemented.

ARTICLE 9: THE SHA'ARIA SHALL GUARANTEE ALL CITIZENS THE FOLLOWING: FREEDOM OF OPINION, OF EXPRESSION IN ALL ITS FORMS,AND OF PUBLIC GATHERING

In Islam the freedom of opinion in fact is the right to freely discuss all opinions
before selecting the decision to be implemented which all members are to abide by as a
decision of the Ummah. so putting people behind bars for expressing different views
is against the principles of Islam, its guidance and the foundation of its Sha'aria.

ARTICLE 19: AS DEFENDER OF THE FAITH, HE SHALL (AMIR AL MOUMUNIN) ENSURE THE RESPECT FOR THE CONSTITUTION.

A big confusion here, neither the constitution nor imarat al mouminin are based totally
nor partially on Islamic Sha'aria....

ARTICLE 23: THE PERSON OF THE KING SHALL BE SACRED AND INVIOLABLE.

In Islam no one is above the law and followers and representative of the nation are
equal in rights and obligation.

ARTICLE 28: THE KING SHALL HAVE THE RIGHT TO DELIVER ADDRESSES TO THE NATION AND TO THE PARLIAMENT. THE MESSAGES SHALL BE READ OUT BEFORE BOTH HOUSES AND SHALL NOT BE SUBJECT TO ANY DEBATE.

Shu'raa in Islam is not only the basics of human rights and freedoms that include
freedom of opinion, of ownership and managing ones wealth but goes beyond that to the
right of participation in the collective decisions of society and to share its wealth.
Shu''raa is indded a social foundation and a foundation for a political system. The
Prophet Peace Be Upon Him sided with the opinion of the majority of Uhud to go to
battle against the enemy outside of Madinah, though his initial opinion and the
opinion of his closest companions was to stay in Madinah.

ARTICLE 106: NEITHER THE STATE SYSTEM OF MONARCHY NOR THE PRESCRIPTIONS RELATED TO THE RELIGION OF ISLAM MAY BE SUBJECT TO A CONSTITUTIONAL REVISION.

Its the holy Quoran that is sacred in Islam and need no revision. The prescriptions
related to the religion of Islam was set and is being interpreted by the state
system the way to benefit whom it concerns.


content of above articles reflect the truth about state governing system which's nearest to specularism tham to Islam. So are there still who believes that Morocco is Muslim country?

Morocco is like that either you love it or hate it , if someone not happy about the system in morocco , there is afghanistan , tora bora et kabul

you are talking about an extremist state
have you heard of the word moderate ???!
mutulating a thief s hand, marrying 4 wives and sleeping with jawaris , execution of women in football stadiums, ........... are unhuman acts which will never be tolerated in morocco

morocco is a moderate country you know the ones who killed more than 50 innocents in casablanca were brainwashed exactly with the same words used in this article
morocco is not a muslim country = moroccans are not muslims = it s 7alal to explode on them in internet cafes and restaurant and this is how you will end up in paradise!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

disabling a poor waiter in a casablanca restaurant is a form of Jihad isn t it ????blinding a young student in an internet cafe will be paid by entering paradise!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

those who dream of a taliban system in Morocco deserve prison for life , tazmamert is empty but his doors are open to all those who allow themselves to kill innocents and harm morocco with a lame religious excuse

hi whatup,

thanks for your reply,

if i understood well your comment Sha'aria for you means = halal to explode on Moroccan in internet cafe
Saha'aria = disabling a poor waiter in a casablanca
restaurant
Sha'aria = blinding a young student in internet cafe

because i did mention nothing about what you were refering to.

those who dream of a taliban system in Morocco deserve prison for life , tazmamert is empty but his doors are open to all those who allow themselves to kill innocents and harm morocco with a lame religious excuse
Your message was addressed to many Yabi members who share the same point of views with me regarding topics similar to the one i posted. who knows, maybe your person is the wiser and most intelligent and you are the only one that can see it !!!!

all the best

Quote
pearlview
assalm' alikom everybody,

Please halt one minute, i'm not talking about Moroccans as individuals or even society but the state governing system and people who has set and create it.

Let's have a look first at some of constitution articles:

ARTICLE 6: ISLAM SHALL BE THE STATE RELIGION.

Just one case from many: in our country more than 131 millions of liquor battles are sold
every year. The average consumption of every citizen is 4 liters per year. 80 billions cent
is the net benefit going to state treasury. In our country rarely when cha'aria law is
implemented.

ARTICLE 9: THE SHA'ARIA SHALL GUARANTEE ALL CITIZENS THE FOLLOWING: FREEDOM OF OPINION, OF EXPRESSION IN ALL ITS FORMS,AND OF PUBLIC GATHERING

In Islam the freedom of opinion in fact is the right to freely discuss all opinions
before selecting the decision to be implemented which all members are to abide by as a
decision of the Ummah. so putting people behind bars for expressing different views
is against the principles of Islam, its guidance and the foundation of its Sha'aria.

ARTICLE 19: AS DEFENDER OF THE FAITH, HE SHALL (AMIR AL MOUMUNIN) ENSURE THE RESPECT FOR THE CONSTITUTION.

A big confusion here, neither the constitution nor imarat al mouminin are based totally
nor partially on Islamic Sha'aria....

ARTICLE 23: THE PERSON OF THE KING SHALL BE SACRED AND INVIOLABLE.

In Islam no one is above the law and followers and representative of the nation are
equal in rights and obligation.

ARTICLE 28: THE KING SHALL HAVE THE RIGHT TO DELIVER ADDRESSES TO THE NATION AND TO THE PARLIAMENT. THE MESSAGES SHALL BE READ OUT BEFORE BOTH HOUSES AND SHALL NOT BE SUBJECT TO ANY DEBATE.

Shu'raa in Islam is not only the basics of human rights and freedoms that include
freedom of opinion, of ownership and managing ones wealth but goes beyond that to the
right of participation in the collective decisions of society and to share its wealth.
Shu''raa is indded a social foundation and a foundation for a political system. The
Prophet Peace Be Upon Him sided with the opinion of the majority of Uhud to go to
battle against the enemy outside of Madinah, though his initial opinion and the
opinion of his closest companions was to stay in Madinah.

ARTICLE 106: NEITHER THE STATE SYSTEM OF MONARCHY NOR THE PRESCRIPTIONS RELATED TO THE RELIGION OF ISLAM MAY BE SUBJECT TO A CONSTITUTIONAL REVISION.

Its the holy Quoran that is sacred in Islam and need no revision. The prescriptions
related to the religion of Islam was set and is being interpreted by the state
system the way to benefit whom it concerns.


content of above articles reflect the truth about state governing system which's nearest to specularism tham to Islam. So are there still who believes that Morocco is Muslim country?

Your stressing the right to freedom of opinion is nice and all. But what good is it for me to be able to express my opinion, yet cannot as an individual live my life the way I choose to.

k.

Freedom of speech is directly related to creativity. a society with freedom of thought will produce creative human beings. a society which places curbs on freedom of expression will necessarily witness intellectual stagnation. it will stop producing creative minds and its development will come to a final standstill.

FREEDOM OF SPEECH = CREATIVITY = BETTER LIFE

you are marketing for the application of the shariaa law in Morocco am i wrong ???it s very obvious
demolishing the vote system and replacing it with a shura law ???this kind of system is already in saoudie arabia where a group of beardies illeterate spend their time in shura between each other and decide for the whole country, where is the individual vote , the individual differences women votes in all this, democracy, does shura law allow women to have their opinion??? do you know that according to the shariaa law women have no right to vote a candidate different than the one her wali (father or husband )vote for!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ya salam this is the essence of democracy isn t it?????????

according to shariaa law: if someone stole a loaf of bread , his hand need to be cut in public, is this how are we going to better our society by producing more unemployed disable people
somehow you throw the word creativity in all thisit s hilarious are you serious , how could anyone be creative in an environment which imposes a list of retrictions even to the way of thinking ? how could a writer be creative thinking that may be what he is thinking of will cause a fatwa against him or her , will put the lives of his family in danger
sufficating people , denying women the rights to participate in economy social , science, art wont lead to any creativity
according to shariaa law it s haram for a woman to take a role of wali which means: no leading roles ever
so suppose we take this law from the theory to the practice :
a woman is not allowed to be :
a headmaster in a school : thats classsified wali in case there are male teachers or male students
a judge : anisa2o nakisato dinine wa a39el ( did you see what muslim brotherhood did when in egypt when a woman became a judge in the 1990 she even had to move houses because they were threatening her children they were chanting it s in chari3a and they are right
a pilot : thats a leading job(wali)decision maker
a bus driver
and the list is long
is this better life : is this creativity ? is this freedom of speech ???

the answer to your topic morocco is a moderate muslim country , like all the arab muslim countries it is inspired by islam as religion simply because we live as a part of a world , part of an economic system , banking system ,a social system what was acceptable centuries ago won t be suitable nowadays

shariaa law is the killer of freedom of speech= domination of a group of religious twisted minded illeterate morons = women suffrance= death of creativity = a 1000000000000000000000steps backward

shriaa law won t land you on the moon but will throw you in a pool of blood and anarchie

wake up and smell the coffee others invest in Hi tech laboratories , invent rocket science ,cures to deseases, medecines , vaccins , technologies develop their education system and we invest our times in preaching how many women a man should marry , what age a girl is fit for bed and how long in centimetres the beard must grow and the colour of burkas is strictly black



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/2009 11:07 by whatp.

The same speech advanced by Christian preachers to harm Islam and tarnish his image.
I had the chance to read one of their booklet handled to Moroccan of abroad at different rest stations especially in Spain. Your message, statements and arguments are exactly similar to what these people are throwing out to mislead Muslims. You can get one on your way back if you even cross Spain. It’s free of charge and it’s written in English, Arabic, Spanish and French. You can see yourself through it and if you use 0.5% of your nerve cells you will realize that you are preaching as well but under camouflage.
I remember watching last year a debate in which an evangelic bishop was pointing out what he called the loopholes of the Islamic law through Saudi governing system (the same way you are trying to link Islamic Sha’aria with the same system). Aren’t you by any chance the wise and attentive student of the bishop’s school? Your claims Saudi system is the Islamic governing model is the most hilarious thing I ever heard? Group of beardies you are referring to are the most people exploiting Islam for personal benefits. You are just ignorant as Taliban, can’t see the difference in your way of thinking.

No Mr. haj whatp: Some Islamic law can only be put in practice when some conditions are fulfilled. You can get married to 2nd + … 4/ wife if you are eligible for it and many women see no inconvenience for their husband to contract another marriage when they are sure their rights will be preserve. For a thief his hand to be cut, Sha’aria scholars say it can be put in practice when justice and fairness prevail in MUSLIM society which’s not the case nowadays. Under Sha’aria law, a woman scolded amir al mouminin Omar ibn Al kataab for having interpreted something wrong then he made his famous reply ( asabat imra3toun wa akhta3 Omar). that was the absolute freedom of speech your criticizing, so can yourself do the same thing under the system your praising? Or are you among who support (goulou al a3m zine) even though more than 2/3 of Moroccans are poor.
Your definition to moderate Islam is the same interpreted by westerns. Moderate Islam = part of economic system = part of banking system = part of a social system = part of sexual tourism = part of liquor trade (131 million bottles for national consumption) + ….

I don’t know to whom I’m debating, anyway if you are a Muslim, you already know that Sha’aria and Islamic law are interpreted from the holy Koran and sira3 nabaouiya and were not set by me. You either take it as a whole or better change your suit. Islam will remain strong with you or without you. If you belong to another religion you should learn more about Islam as it’s a religion of peace, love and understanding not what preachers are trying to spread.

Creativity can never be achieved by being brainwashed, by copying/pasting what other people think and see. Creativity can be achieved by believing in ourselves, believing in our capacity to search, understand and act according to our principles and faith and not to what christian preachers spread.

(ine tansourou ALLAHA yansouroukoume)

[[b]b]I think this topic is (deja vu)you posted it but under your other pseudo[/b][/b]

i don t see anything new in your way of seeing things , once someone doesn t agree with you you use the weak style: are you muslim? christian preacher ? what s that got to do with christianity , catholism, or worshiping the devilhuman rights are universal
when a person says : a woman has the right to vote , to be a president(wali , decision maker) has the same right as men because she is a citizen WHY you think it s copying christian ? where is the link exactly : thats called human rights NOT COPYING christian

self critic is a sign of a civilised mind, you need to learn how to use your brain as a mirror to see the negative side in your life , have the courage to say thats wrong and not acceptable even though the shriaa says it s ok , try to see things from different corners not just the religious one if something in religion harms a category of the society specially the weak a child or a woman it needs to be avoided


according to the ideal shariaa law which you are obsessed with : beating up your wife is a husband s right ? true or false? marrying a minor is permitted true or false ?? correct me if i am wrong
butfrom a human being point of view it s illegal even though it s 7alal by your shri3a
beating up a woman in shriaa is a right from a civilised point of you it s called aggression

marrying a minor from a shariaa law point of view : called zawaj 7alal: from a civilised human being opinion this is called : paedophelia , rape of a child and the person who commit this crime need to be registered in the sex offenders database and jailed for life most of shriaa law breaches human rights from A to Z
all moderate muslims who are aware of this fact and reject a dark narrow minded to manage the society are true muslims with a wise way of seeing everyday life
those who preaches for an exact replicat of a law which was applied to a society which was living in the desert under a tent need to wake up and be real and realise that defending human rights is a must without excluding women or a minority .

human rights specially women rights according to extremists obsessed with the shriaa law means copying others and this is a misleading way of seeing the truth , an incurable phobia , an excuse to continue
the bullying ,slavery of women, the aggression ,and the intolerant culture

whoever wishes to apply shari3a law he needs to apply it on his family, or choose one of those rogue countries where there are plenty of caves where to hide because it s simply no place for it in morocco



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2009 10:12 by whatp.

I think this topic is (deja vu)you posted it but under your other pseudo
I do respect and i'm so much grateful to people who already post previously the same topic and who share the same piont of view with me. that's a honor man...


what s that got to do with christianity , catholism, or worshiping the devilhuman rights are universal
well the answer is so easy: when you accuse Islamic law of being backwards and that its the killer of freedom of speech you'r not only pointing your sharp dagger to this Sha'aria but also to the Holy Koran and Souna3 Nabaouiya. No need to remind you once again that Islamic Sha'aria rules are taken from these two principle sources. No need to remind you also that your friends the beardies don't represent Sha'aria so you'r missing the point. don't insist, you 'r just making a fool of yourself.
I don't think there's a Muslim on earth who will tolerate you attacking Islam this way except preachers, their followers and enemies of our religion. That's why i'm suspecting you are a preacher otherwise why are you showing all this hateress againt Souna3 Nabaouiya and Koran and trying everytime to link all muslim misdeeds and ill manners with it???

self critic is a sign of a civilised mind
we do respect all religion Christianity included and Islam has proven its the religion of peace, love and understanding that's why thousands of non Muslim convert to Islam each year. So i invite you once again to read more about Islam not from preachers, your friends the beardies nor even the Islam of taliban but Islam taken from the two sources.

once someone doesn t agree with you you use the weak style
I have nothing against you man nor against what your preaching because our religion teach us how to tolerate and how to deal peacefully with all mankinds. i just find it ridiculous you disguise behind moderate Islam to spread FITNA among Muslims. Just reveal your real identity, you may be a bit respected rather than letting others looking down to you.


wake up and smell the coffee others invest in Hi tech laboratories , invent rocket science ,cures to deseases, medecines , vaccins , technologies develop their education system and we invest our times in preaching how many women a man should marry , what age a girl is fit for bed and how long in centimetres the beard must grow and the colour of burkas is strictly black
You know buddy, when Islamic rules were practiced the right way we had Ibn Albaitar, Ibn Annafis, Al Faribi, Ibn Sina, Ibn Toufail, Al Kawarizmi etc... who almost all were scholars and scientists at the same time but when we gave up using these rules and started to adopt the system your praising we ended up with mentally sick taliban who forbid girls from going to school and cut a thief's hand in a miserable country, selfish group of beardies who mistreat their wifes and forbid them to vote and also ignorant people like wup, upwhat, what is up who have changed the vest and the list is long ......


have a nice day man

i haven t read all what you wrote it s the same broken CD which is boring and pointless
just when you market for a product in this case shriaa and morocco try to understand what you are talking about , it s all nice to talk theorically but practically those rusty ideas are against human rights

your tolerance is really amazing , a sample of narrow minded self centered one way system individual
you are giving a bad picture to what you are preaching :
all words definitions are upside down in your dictionary:
women rights= copying christians
i don t agree with you= you are not a muslim you must be a jew , a preacher , or may be jesus
instructif criticism = hate to religion
don t marry a minor =spreading fitna
women has the right to lead= oh no you are attacking islam

no time for your hallucinations next time you visit our lovely bled go tell your stories to chakib ben mousa he will show you in practice how shari3a law is practiced good luck you will need it

No, not all Moroccans are muslim, it is not a muslim country but a free country for all Moroccans.
Let's take a look pearlview:

ARTICLE 6: ISLAM SHALL BE THE STATE RELIGION.

Quote

Just one case from many: in our country more than 131 millions of liquor battles are sold
every year. The average consumption of every citizen is 4 liters per year. 80 billions cent
is the net benefit going to state treasury. In our country rarely when cha'aria law is
implemented.

In a real democracy there is no such thing as state religion, people are free to practice whatever they want yet still be citizens of the state, so this article is incompatible with the claim that Morocco is a real democracy and should be changed.
This article shows how hypocrite our constitution is, and how hypocrite the shariaa law is.


ARTICLE 9: THE SHA'ARIA SHALL GUARANTEE ALL CITIZENS THE FOLLOWING: FREEDOM OF OPINION, OF EXPRESSION IN ALL ITS FORMS,AND OF PUBLIC GATHERING

Quote

In Islam the freedom of opinion in fact is the right to freely discuss all opinions
before selecting the decision to be implemented which all members are to abide by as a
decision of the Ummah. so putting people behind bars for expressing different views
is against the principles of Islam, its guidance and the foundation of its Sha'aria.

There is no such thing as freedom of opinion, of expression and freedom of public gathering in Morocco, worst of all in the shariaa law, just look at gay people when they gather and those who converted to other religions!!!
In Morocco, they are prosecuted and sent to jail, in shariaa law, their heads are put under the sword, and for what?
People were born free, they have the right to pick the religion they prefer or the partner they prefer, so the state, the shariaa law and this article are hypocrites.
it's written in the qoran : << khala9atkom omahatokom ahrara..>>
your mothers gave you birth as free people.
This article is also hypocrite so is shariaa law.

ARTICLE 19: AS DEFENDER OF THE FAITH, HE SHALL (AMIR AL MOUMUNIN) ENSURE THE RESPECT FOR THE CONSTITUTION.

Quote

A big confusion here, neither the constitution nor imarat al mouminin are based totally
nor partially on Islamic Sha'aria....

This article should also change, the title Amir Al Mouminin is not compatible with 2009 and beyond just as shariaa law is not, those days belong in the dark ages.


ARTICLE 23: THE PERSON OF THE KING SHALL BE SACRED AND INVIOLABLE.

Quote

In Islam no one is above the law and followers and representative of the nation are
equal in rights and obligation.

That's what i call Bull Shit, all humans are the same, he or she who wrote this article must have been high on something.

ARTICLE 28: THE KING SHALL HAVE THE RIGHT TO DELIVER ADDRESSES TO THE NATION AND TO THE PARLIAMENT. THE MESSAGES SHALL BE READ OUT BEFORE BOTH HOUSES AND SHALL NOT BE SUBJECT TO ANY DEBATE.

Quote

Shu'raa in Islam is not only the basics of human rights and freedoms that include
freedom of opinion, of ownership and managing ones wealth but goes beyond that to the
right of participation in the collective decisions of society and to share its wealth.
Shu''raa is indded a social foundation and a foundation for a political system. The
Prophet Peace Be Upon Him sided with the opinion of the majority of Uhud to go to
battle against the enemy outside of Madinah, though his initial opinion and the
opinion of his closest companions was to stay in Madinah.

That's called dictatorship, just as the shariaa law practices dictatorship, this article and the shariaa law both enforce dictatorship.

ARTICLE 106: NEITHER THE STATE SYSTEM OF MONARCHY NOR THE PRESCRIPTIONS RELATED TO THE RELIGION OF ISLAM MAY BE SUBJECT TO A CONSTITUTIONAL REVISION.

Quote

Its the holy Quoran that is sacred in Islam and need no revision. The prescriptions
related to the religion of Islam was set and is being interpreted by the state
system the way to benefit whom it concerns.

The state, the monarchy and the qoran...are all subject to interpretion and revision.
Only the idiots don't learn from the past, only the idiots ignore the mistakes of the past cause the past always repeats itself.

Quote

content of above articles reflect the truth about state governing system which's nearest to specularism tham to Islam. So are there still who believes that Morocco is Muslim country?

Are you so sure?
As i can see, the shariaa law is as hypocrite as the Moroccan constitution.

hi libre penseur

let's take a look,

People were born free, they have the right to pick the religion they prefer or the partner they prefer, so the state, the shariaa law and this article are hypocrites.

I absolutely do agree with you 100%, people are free lo lead their life the way they like but you miss the point when you put Sha’aria along with state and article!!!
Who told you Shar’aria law execute whoever practices another religion? Didn’t you read Sourat Alkafiroun??? (lakoume dinoukome waliya dine)



In a real democracy there is no such thing as state religion, people are free to practice whatever they want yet still be citizens of the state, so this article is incompatible with the claim that Morocco is a real democracy and should be changed.
This article shows how hypocrite our constitution is, and how hypocrite the shariaa law is.

Absolutely true except that Sha’aria has nothing to do with this: don’t you know that Prophet pbuh used to live with Jewish as one community in total respect?


That's called dictatorship, just as the shariaa law practices dictatorship, this article and the shariaa law both enforce dictatorship.

Do I need to remind you That Prophet Peace Be Upon Him sided with the opinion of the majority of Uhud to go to battle against the enemy outside of Madinah, though his initial opinion and the opinion of his closest companions was to stay in Madinah. Where do you see dictatorship here? I

No one can argue that Sha’aria law (not Sha'aria of taliban or that belonging to upwhat's nor of the group of beardies but the real one)is taken from Holy Koran and Sira Nabaouiya so when you say that Sha’aria is hypocrite don’t you mean the Holy Koran and Sira Nabaouiya?

trying to revive what people used to do hundreds of years ago is not logical

even with a shri"3a law the muslims killed each other , fought for the khilafa between each other , the history of islam is not all peace , good times , prosperity and the cause was the shari"aa fanatics
a shari3"a if it s going to last needs to accept flexibility , accept ijti 8ad to suit the modern life
accept the freedom of choices

I think libre penseur answered your question clearly

those people who killed each other and fought for khilafa were not angels, they are just human beings like you you and me, what all these got to do with Sha'aria? Should we blame Sha'aria because of indisciplinated group of people???
Sha'aria will last because its mentioned in the Koran. i believe in that because i believe in Koran.
Who said there's no flexibility and Ijtihad in Sha'aria? have you read Al mara3ji al khamsa?
Imam Al Gazali said (our desaster is not in the verses but people who interprete the verses)

Quote
pearlview
those people who killed each other and fought for khilafa were not angels, they are just human beings like you you and me, what all these got to do with Sha'aria? Should we blame Sha'aria because of indisciplinated group of people???
Sha'aria will last because its mentioned in the Koran. i believe in that because i believe in Koran.
Who said there's no flexibility and Ijtihad in Sha'aria? have you read Al mara3ji al khamsa?
Imam Al Gazali said (our desaster is not in the verses but people who interprete the verses)

what do you know about Ghazali?
He was sufi, HELLO
Sufis are against shariaa law, they see god as a forgiving god and not angry.
Have you heard of Rabiaa Al Adawiya?
[en.wikipedia.org]
She walked in the streets holding a bucket of water and a bransh flaming from fire and screaming, please Allah, if there hell let me destry it with this water and if there is heaven let me burn it with this bransh of fire cause if we accept you we should accept you as you are and not from being scared from your hell or for the gardens of your heaven.
she was a sufi way before the time of Ghazali and so was Gazali.
you are quoting Ghazali who doesn't believe in shariaa law.
do some studies first please before you talk

who killed Fatima?
the daughter of Mohamed.
who killed her husband Ali, Abu Turab?
the cousin of Mohamed.
who killed their sons, Hassan and Hussein?
who murdered more than 70 members of the family of Mohamed in one day?
Not even 50 years after the death of the prophet Mohamed and his whole family was eradicated by muslims who followed shariaa and you are preaching to us your stupid shariaa law 1500 yrs later?
The shariaa law says:
if you steal, we shall imputate your right hand and left foot and if you steal again we should imputate your left hand and left foot.
The third time you steal, we put your head under the sword.
How the f**k would anyone steal again when he lost both his arms?
stupid idiots write stupid laws.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2009 07:06 by LibrePenseur.

Imam Gazali said "azmatou al Islami laysa (not) fi aha3ditihi walakine fil moutaha3ditina3 anhou"
In other words Imam Gazali aknowledge that our misfortune is not in our "noussousse but people interpreting these "noussousse". So being a soufi or not didn't change his conception to Sha'aria.



In a previous post entitled “is Morocco a democracy” posted by yourself you said you only fear Allah. So how can you fear someone if you don’t respect and practice his Sha’aria? Didn’t you accuse Sha’aria of being hypocrite, of being stupid, of practicing dictatorship? Because why, Sha’aria linguistically means SOURCE and the source are Koran sent down by Allah and Sira Nabaouiya of our Prophet (pbuh). The purpose of Source = Sha’aria is to warn us and to show us the truth and to bring to us revelation from Allah. Allah almighty said “ ina3 nahnou naza3lna adikra3 wa ina lahou lahafidoune”
so can you please explain to me how can you fear Allah and at the same time curse his Sha’aria?


Even though western media portray Islam as a religion often depicted as oppressive to woman , new Muslim women outnumber new Muslim men by as much as two to one. Ms. Graziano, a new Muslim lady said that depiction is a false image perpetuated by the media, and that in fact Islam is more forward-thinking about gender than many Western traditions. As evidence, she note that Islam allowed women to own property and vote long before Western cultures.
So if this Sha’ari is stupid, hypocrite and practices dictatorship, can you please explain to me why is it attracting thousands of new Muslim every year? Have all these million of people been brainwashed?

(who killed Fatima?
the daughter of Mohamed.
who killed her husband Ali, Abu Turab?
the cousin of Mohamed.
who killed their sons, Hassan and Hussein?
who murdered more than 70 members of the family of Mohamed in one day?)

It’s Sha’aria which killed all these people. It’s Sha’aria which’s behind all Fitna. It’s the stupid Sha’aria which eradicated the Prophet’s (pbuh) family.
So can you please forward to me the source of your claims? I mean any verses or Ahadith to support your case and prove that Sha’aria incites to hateress, to killing and fitna?

It’s obvious you are trying to portray Sha’aria so badly by linking it to a group of followers who disobeyed Islamic law.
So can you please explain to me why Protestants and Catholics who have been murdering each other for centuries didn’t blame it on their religion but keep preaching for it?

No man, I’m not preaching Sha’aria, I’m just explaining my point of views as everyone is doing in this forum.Prophet (pbuh) said “ Islam began as something strange, and it will revert to being strange as it was in the beginning, so good tidings to the strangers”

And Allah knows best, and He alone grants success.

no hard feelings man

if during the prophet time and few months after his death it was Fitna about khilafa and muslims killing each other whats making you think that shari"a law in 2009 will be the path for democracy?

state religion will plunge morocco into the dark ages
in Sweden it is illegal to ask a person what is your religion ? this shows total respect for everyone , you can not force people to believe or behave according to a religion
morocco will prosper the day moroccans will understand that religion is a private matter between a person and god the state must not get involved in the spiritual side of it s people unfortunately shri"a means state religion .



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2009 09:52 by marocain-09.

if during the prophet time and few months after his death it was Fitna about khilafa and muslims killing each other whats making you think that shari"a law in 2009 will be the path for democracy?

Marocain, What Sha’ara means in the first place: its rules sent by Allah to guide us to the right path. It’s his revelation sent to us to enlighten our way and open our hearts to Iman. Sha’aria law is the path for democracy because it’s revealed in the Koran. Read Sourat al Fatiha ( In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Ever Merciful all Praises to Allah Sovereign of the Day of Judgment. You alone we worship, and You alone we ask for help; Guide us to the true path; The path of those on whom You have bestowed your favor, not of those who have earned Your anger, nor of those who go astray).

in Sweden it is illegal to ask a person what is your religion ? this shows total respect for everyone , you can not force people to believe or behave according to a religion.

Prophet (pbuh) used to live with non-Muslim as one community and it was never reported he oblige a non-Muslim to convert. To prove his tolerance he visited a sick Jewish and didn’t act against another Jewish who put rubbish in front of his house, isn’t that enough for you to tolerate his Suna?

morocco will prosper the day moroccans will understand that religion is a private matter between a person and god the state must not get involved in the spiritual side of it s people unfortunately shri"a means state religion.

Marocain, sorry but you made me laugh. Jewish are striving to get world recognition to declare Palestinian occupied territories a Jewish country meanwhile your striving for a secular state. Left parties (Christian parties) in almost the whole of Europe Sweden included are putting ahead plans to give church more power to enforce religious laws meanwhile you believe that Sha’aria will plunge Morocco into the dark ages.
Well done, nothing more I can say...

And Allah knows best, and He alone grants success.

just to remind our pseudo imam leader pearlview that islam is the oposite of democraite.it's a dictatorship in the name of allah. i't s a unilaterale view of the world life and nature. how can there be freedom of speech if you die after exressing youself. remeber what mohamed ude to do to people hoe opposed him or challenged him. death subjugation and humiliation.mohamed killed more jews than hitler.didin't even spare old and helpless people .
it nice to mention lakom diokom walia din. but you have to read other sourat taht say exacly the contrary like. wakatilou ladin la youminouna billahi walyoum alkhir ...... islam taslam. ectccc..
ithink you heard of nassikh walmansoukh. coran al madina ie very different from coran macca.
the nly way for us to live together and in peace. is non religious state. if you ahve problem eith. ghaybiyat. believe in anything you want. but respect other people because islam impose itself on people. and i'ts the wrong religion.

Salam pearlview,
Dear friend, we might not agree but i do respect your opinion as long as it does not interfer with peoples life-style and their freedom to live as they see fit, but once you cross that line then you are nothing but a dictator who wants to force people to live according to his ideology.
Live if you want according to the shariaa law dude, no one is stopping you!!!
just don't come here preaching to us how we should live our lives. We were given choices so why is a simple human trying to restrict our freedoms and our choices by applying his stupid propaganda on us?

What if i wanna worship a tree, why should it be anybody's business?
What if i wanna drink alcohol, take drogs and smoke hashish in my home or in private..why should it be anybody's business?
What if i wanna sleep with men in my private house, why should it anybody's business?
What if i want to let my daughters and wife wear bikinis at the beach, wear skirts and let their bellies show, why should it be anybody's business?

it's not my life-style but how did i harm anyone by living this life-style without breaking the law or harming anyone?

It's called freedom my friend, you are free to live the way you want, just don't break the law or harm anyone, and when you do, you should do time in jail, not get your hands cut off or get stoned til death for adultry or have 100 laches..that's barbaric, not even animals practice that.
The only reason they kill is to survive and not to torture.

If you steal and get caught, we have jails, if you sleep with a married woman, we have divorce laws, if you kill, you do life in jail, if you rape a child or an adult, you do life in jail...etc
Do we have to imputate hands and feet, stone people and cut off their heads to apply the law?
It doesn't have to be shariaa law, we have laws compatible with the 22nd century, all we need is a real democracy, and Morocco will become like Sweeden cause we Moroccans are pacifists by nature, it's in our Amazigh blood.
Live and let live.
peace.

Sorry cloclo, you missed the point, reread the tile of this post. We ‘re not discussing either Islam is the true religion or a wrong one. if you want to debate this matter please open a new thread and i’ll answer you willingly and happily. thank you for your comprehension.

No librepenseur, I don’t care and it’s not my concern and i never asked anyone either he is a Muslim or if he is embracing another religion. i don’t interfere in anyone’s faith either he worship God, his mountain or even if he join the devil worshipper’s group. You are a free man, you were born free and you will die free; you are free to live the way you want so i don’t give damn intention to who you are and what you do. You know why dear buddy, because even if a Muslim commit misdeeds Allah Almighty may elect either to chastise him or to forgive him. if someone denies his existence or opposes that Prophet (pbuh) is his Messenger, he will be sent to hellfire. hypocrisy and arrogance in any deed annul its reward, so why should i bother myself preaching you or anyone else here or elsewhere?

I’m a Muslim and Islam is surrender and submission to the commands of Allah most high. In Islam there is no belief without Islam, and Islam can't be conceived of without belief. they are like the outer and inner aspect of a thing that is inseparable. “Din” is a name applied to both belief and Islam. if i’m here friend, it’s because i want to discuss this aspect with my community or whoever interested but in total peace, love and understanding. i’m not an angel nor imam, still need to learn so asking me to stop what you call propaganda (in other words to shut up) while i’m expressing my views is violation to freedom of speech moreover this forum is for everybody, all cultures, all races and all religions. Read the chart of this forum my dear dude before you talk. this on one hand, on the other hand; how can you claim you respect my opinion while you keep cursing my beliefs and principles??? Didn’t you treat Islamic Sha’aria in every comment you post badly by qualifying it as propaganda, stupid and dictatorship? Did anyone here insult you or use vulgar terms to silence you? If you really respect my opinion, please do respect my beliefs, if you respect my beliefs then you are respecting the Sha’aria i belong to, and if you respect Sha’aria I belong to then you are respecting God who sent it down to us through his Messenger (pbuh). So pretty please respect my God, Ok!

librepenseur, why you and many think that Sha’aria is not valid to govern. simply because you are judging certain laws in a wrong manner. Suppose that we have a just law but certain people apply it wrongfully, then can we say that the law is wrong or the people who apply it are wrong? Another example, if a Christian criminal murder a man; can we say Christianity is a religion of killing and crimes? Of course no, because we should differenciate between Christianity as a religion and Christians who apply it. similarly this apply to Islamic Sha’aria. consequently the question that impose itself is:
How can we judge whether a law is valid or invalid? We can judge only when we have people interpreting and applying such law accurately. Just take your case as example: you wanted to back your statement by referring to the following(wa kad waladathoum oumahatouhoum ahrara) as Koranic verse but indeed it was a speech of Omar Ibn Al Katab radiya Allahou anhou and thus you missed to interprete it the right way. The full speech is “mata ista3badtoumou ana3ssa wa kad waladathoumou oumahatouhoum ahrara” and it was uttered to abolish the pre-Islamic life of slavery, degeneration, and ignorance into the enlightened life of Islam, into Sha’aria of Allah and Suna of his Prophet (pbuh). Hadith is against what you’re supporting so please do some researches before you talk. The conclusion friend is that if we want to judge Sha’aria whether it’s valid or not we shouldn’t establish our judgment on the status of its ignorant followers who interprete the religion wrongly but stress on its provisions in orther to be objectif.

Should I remind you chap that Muslims did not witness, along their history, such progress in all fields of life except after they have applied the Islamic Sharia. at the reign of Omar Bin Abdul Aziz, economically; he was helping those who can't marry, pay their debts, and allocate a salary for each newly born infant from the treasury of the Muslims. regarding the scientific field, the shining beams of Al-Hasan Bin Al-Haitham, Al-Farabi, Ibn Sina, Al-Baironi, Jaber Bin Hayyan, Al-Khawarizmi, Al-Jebreti and the others talented characters from whom the west has built their culture, appeared only during the era in which the Islamic Sharia was applied. isn't it a proof that the Islamic Sharia is valid to lead the world and find the way out from the current distress?

And Allah knows best, and He alone grants success.

Taliban shari"a is shari"a law could you tell me exactly the shari"a you are talking about that we don t know and you say we are ignorants no idea about the democratic shari"a !
there is no democratic shari"a despite your efforts to decorate it with sweet words , shari"a in itself is a dictatorship it s based on aggression , force and interferance

you have to think as the shari"a orders you and instructs you or you have your head cut by sword
you can not deny that shari"aa means strict application of rules which doesn t believe in any type of freedom and doesn t accept any objections , the word NO to any rule means death where is freedom in this ?
as libre penseur repeated many times : shari"aa doesn t know : live and let live but live exactly like you been told or die



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2009 02:59 by marocain-09.

i just want to tell our friend here perlview that he must have a sens of history and time. chariaa law was nvented 14 thousand years ago.for any reasonable man that law is out of date .when he talk about slavery. women were free before islam. one man one woman even mohamed married khadija one the baisc of this low. only when she died he started and after he became a muslim than his sexual urge started to show.and then women became slaves.you can marry as many as you want.4 waves and mamalakt aymanokom. what freedom are you talkng about.why should any one respect your god while your own religon does not respect any.
you can paly the gentelman's card but we all know what islam is all about.shariaa is not fit for animals not only for huaman beings. keep it for yourself if you are an animal. we believe in human rights democratie and freedom

Our friend pearlview is brain-washed.
It's a waste of time to try to wake him up, i think he's gone with the Taliban.
what a waste
Life is too short, enjoy life and treat people as you like to be treated.
Is that too much to ask?
The rest is all extra, it's like icecream on top of a cake.
Enjoy

In one of your recent post debating democracy in Morocco, you backed one of your comments by the following Hadith of the Prophet (pbuh): (man ra'a minkoum mounkarane fal'yourayrhou biyadihi, fa ine lame yastati fabilisanihi, fa'ine lam yastati fa bikhalbihi wa dalika adafou al imane).
As interpreted in the books of Fikh and Sunna, literally and religiously the term “ Mounkare”
Means any misbehavior or misconduct affecting our political, social daily life and putting our morality in danger. Your speech clearly, strongly and firmly incites to implement one of the most contested Sha’aria’s law. As clear as it is, your call is a call to apply punishment rules under Sha’aria to whoever commit “Mounkare” in our society. Great, fantastic, wonderful: we have here another brother trying to glorify Allah’s Sha’aria through his Prophet (pbuh) words. Your happiness won’t last long brothers of “Din” because Just few weeks later our brother suddenly has got a divine message from the spirit asking him to fight for the abolishment of Sha’aria under the pretext that its stupid, dictatorship and propaganda. Waw…waw…. From a fervent supporter of a clean society to a fervent defender of bikini and right to drink liquors in a record time. My dear friend, according to a definition of Oulamah, a hypocrite in Islam is one who saw Islam; accepted its principles; embraced it; went along with it, but when his life style and preferences were challenged, Islam had failed with him. He knowingly wouldn't follow Islam because it would violate a certain life style that he adopted, ego, or standard that is too important to him, even though it directly violates Islam. So is this you life style you are proud of? Is this the ideology of your new democracy of 22 century you are marketing? Is this the principles you are teaching your children? Allah Almighty said "The Hypocrites, men and women, (have an understanding) with each other: They enjoin evil, and forbid what is just, and are close with their hands. They have forgotten God; so He hath forgotten them. Verily the Hypocrites are rebellious and perverse.

Are you going to tell me it’s not my problem what you think or say? Are you going to ask me to mind my own business and not to interfere with your life style? Are you going to tell me in what this harm others if you worship Allah and the devil alternatively day by day? Yes no one has the right to interfere with that but you have to know that you don’t have the right as well to make fool of people. We Moroccan are not like uncle Sam’s boys. We don’t swallow words before we chew it well and if by any chance we find it tasteless we throw it all. Our ear’s drums are filters and they reject automatically whatever is not logic.

have a nice day

And Allah knows best, and He alone grants success.

librepenseur, carry on being libre penseur (free thinker) and don't throw the sponge like that. keep bebating with judgement and not useless emoticons

thanks

Dear Mr. Cloclo,
Happy day to you,

Thank you for your comment. Please find bellow answers to yours questions posted above.

chariaa law was invented

(In Medina, Muhammad continued to receive prophetic revelations and to build up the community of Muslims).

Author: Frederick M. Denny, Book:An Introduction to Islam, Year: 2006



only when she died he started and after he became a muslim than his sexual urge started to show and then women became slaves

(The condition of slaves, like that of women, may well have improved with the coming of Islam)

Author:Malise Ruthven,
Book: Islam in the World,
Year:2000


(The fact that slavery is a major concern in Islamic law no doubt stems from the prevalence of slavery at the time when Islam was instituted combined with the fact that the Qur'an clearly presents universal freedom and human dignity as its ideal society. Its recommendation that slaves be freed is on the same plane as its recommendation that the poor be clothed and the hungry be fed).

Author: Jacob Neusner, Tamara Sonn,
Book: Comparing Religions through Law: Judaism and Islam,
Year:1999


women were free before islam

[The Christian church's main justification of the concept of slavery was based on the "curse of Ham" which appears in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) in Genesis 9:25-27. "Cursed be Canaan! The lowest of slaves will he be to his brothers. He also said, 'Blessed be the Lord, the God of Shem! May Canaan be the slave of Shem].

"The right of holding slaves is clearly established in the Holy Scriptures, both by precept and example." Rev. R. Furman, D.D., a Baptist pastor from South Carolina.

(Slavery was common in pre-Islamic times and accepted by many ancient legal systems, Monotheistic religions, Christianity and Judaism. It was indeed, a well-established custom of the pre-Islamic world; it has never preached the abolition of slavery as a doctrine).

Author: Forough Jahanbaksh
Book: Islam, Democracy and Religious Modernism in Iran
Year: 2001

Hopefully I was successful in answering all your questions. Nevertheless if an ambiguity still exist, please Mr. cloclo don’t hesitate to ask me.


NB: references above are tank thinkers, lecturers and authors’s statements. for your information, these non-Muslims people who belong to a western culture are the same who are supporting your human rights, freedom and democracy.


Thank you,
Yours faithfully,
A - B

Marocain, do you believe that in hereafter everyone will be handed his book after Kiyama? if you say yes; remember to answer your God when he'll ask you his first questions "who is your God? who is your Messenger? what is your book?" do remember to tell him that his Sha'aria is dictatorship based on aggression, force and interference. Don’t insist to tell me your lyric every time because it's going to get you nowhere, because you aren’t defying me but you are challenging the One who brought you to this world. Anyway,Hidaya comes from Allah but to those who are looking for it not the ones who are fighting it. Allah Almighty said "And if there should come to you guidance from Me - then whoever follows My guidance will neither go astray (in the world) nor suffer (in the Hereafter)"
if you don't believe in Koran and his verses how can you believe somone who is just reporting what's in it?



if you think i'm portraying Sha'aria as democratic by decorating it with sweet words, why don't you make an effort and try to find out by searching from the source of Islamic legislation "the Holy Koran"? don't you believe in Koran? Why are you wasting your precious time asking a decoration artist instead of getting answers to your questions from the source yourself? if your aim is just to contradict then let it be for 1000 years, i don't care...

Talk about what you think, what you feel, what you know not what you were told or what other people said. Are you going to refer to them as references when you ‘ll be questioned hereafter?


And Allah knows best, and He alone grants success.

s.o.s who are you to judge free thinker and label him as a devil worshiper ? who are you to evaluate the degre of his faith ? how dare you to come here and lecture free berber spirits about imposing a stupid law of every frustrated hater!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

don t you feel ashamed of allowing yourself to play god and judge an other person spiritual life? if you activate your washed brain you will understand : that religion is between a person and his creator why are you interfering in the name of shari"aa ? don t you know your limits ? don t you know that it is rude , uncivilised , unreligious that you as an individual you give yourself the right to say to others : you worship the devil? how do you know ? did you give a person a heart operation and seen what he is up to ? are you allah ?shame on you

you are definitely : gone with Taliban, your brain is not yours , it filled with hate , stupid judgement and a constant repetition of what beardies inserted in your cells
since you are taking the liberty to classify others , weighting their faiths which is a god s job , i think i have the right to call you : a terrorist who hijacked islam and thinks he can play god judge others , consider them devil worshipers without respecting one basic fact : it s up to your creator to judge not you

you have been brainwashed badly , your case is it s hopeless , people who see in others devil worshipers means just one thing that you are deep inside you you have the urge to kill all these people because in your little brain they are devils , what is the difference between your mentality and those who killed innocents don t you see the link , you are heading that way gradually , you are a terrorist in the making , who s manufacturing you ? a local imam or international organisations?
you are a threat to moderate islam , a hater , a blind extremist who is destroying islam image , ruining this religion of peace , you believe in killing , you definitely need a close surveillance you have all the symptoms of a terrorist, who s been toxicated by extreme poisonous ideas
you are hiding behind a computer thinking you are safe and lecturing everybody how to hate others , judging human beings like you as devil worshipers

your pc IP number can be easily traced and it s already done and i wont hesitate to inform the authorities about a psychopath like you who hates everyone who lives or thinks differently
you are a guantanamo escapee and i think you miss it you won t be happy and you deserve to return where you belong

your shari"a law go stick it where the sun does not shine stupid terrorist sexually frustrated
shame on


morocco is not afghanistan , shri"a law is not accepted by moroccans and your types are not welcome even in moroccan caves so what are you going to do about? kill an other 55 innocents in casablanca restaurants? go ahead your balls will be hanged to dry in the highest mountain in Morocco the great atlas



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2009 10:09 by whatp.

if you don't believe in qoran and his verses how can you believe somone who is just reporting what's in it?

this is the problem with islam is the mis quoting of surats , the hundred interpretations of qoran

i am a muslim and i do refuse chariaa law , it handicaps the free thinking , it s injust towards women , and i will never accept to have religious police who torturing women in the streets or kill people because they missed giving zakat, or stole , or homosexuals , or drink , or ...............
i believe that my religion is between me and allah , and after my death it s allah who will judge me not people in this life
respecting privacy is important chariaa does not respect privacy it gives authority to others to surveil and control all the aspects of a person s life any misbehaviour against their rules means severe punishement
to punsih criminals there is the police for that ? the religion need to stay out of it


the internet is cluttered with fatwas of chariaa law it s laughable how 99% of everyday life is forbidden in charaa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2009 10:43 by faisal28.