So there is two kind of person in this forum,humanists and muslims ?

Morocco # English board

Mfun

11 November 2006 15:26

Assalamu Alaykum,

I'm muslim and i'm a human Alhamdurillah.There is a chance to show your humanty or show your Muslim soul.
I need some help,i need somebody who live in Morocco to help me.Pm me please for detail.

Thanks.

AL3ARBIYANA1

14 November 2006 02:30

Assalamo-Alikoum;
Well My Friend there is good & bad people everywhere you go or live, so basicly it's your luck and brain working here hard for you either you do have a good luck and find good people or use your brain and filter the good from the bad, Some Muslims these days have only the Name of islam otherwise they are Worse then Evil Himself, La-Hawla-Wa-La-Quwwata-illabi-Allah-Al-3adim since I moved to live in Canada I prefer not knowing alot Muslims eccept the good ones, especially the Muslims from Our Native Land, Allah Ya-Star ou Ya Hafid Ba3ad 3leehoum Bazzaf As Much as you can, Tartah, why cause they keep the same old fashion brain and the "stone age" thinking, like Tbargeeg, Lahssad, Laghyra, Amma Lakdoub Wa-Nifaq Hadith Wala Haraj, May-Naf3ouksh Walakin Al Maddarah Akthar Bi Katheer, Never Happy about what you do weather it's good or Bad never & never good enough for them, so the Best way Stay away & live "Happylyever"

riffman

14 November 2006 11:10

And would rephrase the topic: "there are two kinds of people in this forum, humanist moslems vs square moslems". The humanists (moslems of course) still religious but open-minded, on the other side there are the old-fashioned ones. Now let me ask a questions. As Moroccans, aren't some of us mixing up maintaining our cultural values, with religion?
have a nice day.

khadijaox81

14 November 2006 15:24

Quote
Mfun
Assalamu Alaykum,

I'm muslim and i'm a human Alhamdurillah.There is a chance to show your humanty or show your Muslim soul.
I need some help,i need somebody who live in Morocco to help me.Pm me please for detail.

Thanks.

well i thought that being a muslim went hand in hand with being a human, and even a humanist. apparently, i was wrong. i never cease to be amazed at how some people define islam,and to be frank, i find this absolutely scary. so you think that people you have a "human soul" as you put it, without actually bothering to explain what you mean by that, aren't good muslims? well, then i guess i hope i won't live long enough to see what people like you, the best muslims there can be if i'm to believe your words and take them seriously, will do of this world if you ever take it over. you are calling on people from morocco to help you, but i think that at this stage, god is the only one who could do something for you. but then i guess you knew that already. have fun, if you know what it means.

sarah70

14 November 2006 17:47

salam laykum

riffman

I want just to understand what do u mean .

Quote
there are two kinds of people in this forum, humanist moslems vs square Moslems

Quote
The humanists (moslems of course) still religious but open-minded

I would appreciate if I can get your explanation on that matter.

eFaysal

14 November 2006 18:00

when it comes to writing, champions.

In my opinion, there is only Moroccan.

But Moroccan likes to talk about others to forget himself.

As a nation, we have first to care about our people.
First our people, we resolve all our problems, if we save some time
we will care about others.

I really have a question, do you think that we can be in harmony with 1 billion and half muslims?
We are only 30 million and our ideas are totally or randomly scattered ...

You can run away and away but you can not run away from yourself ...

zaki7

14 November 2006 19:05

humanism entails a certain dose of universality. If a muslim when he sees a Christian or a Jew thinks of him as a "human" first, then yes that muslim is humanist. Is that the case in the majority of the cases really? That's the question...

khadijaox81

14 November 2006 21:34

Quote
zaki7
humanism entails a certain dose of universality. If a muslim when he sees a Christian or a Jew thinks of him as a "human" first, then yes that muslim is humanist. Is that the case in the majority of the cases really? That's the question...

well done, this is very well put. i think the problem of many muslims nowadays is that they work on the assumption that being muslims means that they're, by definition, so much better than everyone else. which is obviously wrong, but i never cease to be amazed at how many people believe that crap. as for seeing others as humans first, again that's far from granted, as most of those self -righteous muslims see "kafir" where true muslims should see "humans, equal in dignity and rights".

sarah70

14 November 2006 23:39

salam alaykum

Quote
that being muslims means that they're, by definition, so much better than everyone else. which is obviously wrong, but i never cease to be amazed at how many people believe that crap

Crap!!!!

What everyone (Muslim and no Muslim) needs to know the superiority mentioned in Koran is related to takwa and humbleness yet is not in this life it is at the hereafter since we don’t know what would be our deeds and only Almighty will tell us (do I sound like preaching here anyway) whoever thinks he is superior to anyone else (muslim or not) he is actually arrogant wa alaiyadou Be Allah.

zaki7

15 November 2006 03:35

That is unfortunately what gives Islam a bad image. We have always been taught from the very early ages that we were the best, that we hold the absolute truth in hands and that whoever does not believe in what we believe is an outsider and a kafir per definition.

This point is not specific to Islam, Christianism and Judaism have the same thinking and contain in many instances verses that are more radical and strict than most of the verses in the Koran, but they do not concentrate on that. This is why Christianity is very appealing to humanists because christians were able to put a positive face on their religion and that is Love thy neighbor, if somebody hits you, don't hit him back but forgive him, 10 commendments, etc.. These principles ARE to be found in Islam too, but muslims as of today are not interested in these virtues. They probably will for the next generations.

It is really sad to see how kids are being brought up back home, almost unconsciensly into hating the other just because he is different.

Quote
khadijaox81
Quote
zaki7
humanism entails a certain dose of universality. If a muslim when he sees a Christian or a Jew thinks of him as a "human" first, then yes that muslim is humanist. Is that the case in the majority of the cases really? That's the question...

well done, this is very well put. i think the problem of many muslims nowadays is that they work on the assumption that being muslims means that they're, by definition, so much better than everyone else. which is obviously wrong, but i never cease to be amazed at how many people believe that crap. as for seeing others as humans first, again that's far from granted, as most of those self -righteous muslims see "kafir" where true muslims should see "humans, equal in dignity and rights".

sarah70

15 November 2006 06:16

salam alaykum

zaki7

Quote
That is unfortunately what gives Islam a bad image. We have always been taught from the very early ages that we were the best, that we hold the absolute truth in hands and that whoever does not believe in what we believe is an outsider and a kafir per definition.

you sound more acquainted to other religion than yours i know i know you love your religion which Islam but it is muslim that are bad bcoz they are not tolerant terrorist ,read the script or only and take it as it is .

to avoid picking on islam, u pick on muslims it is really too sad ,i never know there is some moroccans like this

just i have qst for all of you guys how do u like muslims deal with kitab and sunna ?take part of it and leave other part oh yeah yeah read it with other books.
i need to now which book u mean (scientific literature socio eco...) we never have problem since forever.

you are working for better life but u don t care about hereafter , a balanced, smart and muslim work for both. this what you are trying to avoid when it comes to any debate everyone hate to hear about islamic scriptures ,everyone would like give his point ignoring religion,YES religion is everywhere in our life as muslim accept it or not i agree it is your right but please don t pretend love for this religion if you don t like to apply it .

if i am debating with non muslim like my colleague at work i do not get my religion involved but when i am debating with you i will be hypocrite if you are talking about homosexuality an trying to explain the psychology aspect of a gay as if it is normal phenomena if we continue talking like this tomorrow it will be acceptable someone has to correct that i think.

it is all about choices as long as we are clear about it and not turning around the bush.

there is difference between respecting people choice and accepting it.and none
can give you a ticket as your said to kafirdom except.... YOURSELF.

baba123

15 November 2006 11:52

What is killing me is some if not all people that debiting religious matter in this forums , either never hold the Coran in there hands or if they did they don't know anything beyond the "sorat lhamdou, and 9oul houa lalah ahad"
and they only learned it to recite it before the school exam. So we are all sounding exactly like some what so called imams or Fkeeh , giving fatoua as they please.
I’m not saying we shouldn’t discuss religion,

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2006 11:53 by baba123.

chelhman

15 November 2006 12:14

Quote

sarah70
you sound more acquainted to other religion than yours i know i know you love your religion which Islam but it is muslim that are bad bcoz they are not tolerant terrorist ,read the script or only and take it as it is .
to avoid picking on islam, u pick on muslims it is really too sad ,i never know there is some moroccans like this

just i have qst for all of you guys how do u like muslims deal with kitab and sunna ?take part of it and leave other part oh yeah yeah read it with other books.
i need to now which book u mean (scientific literature socio eco...) we never have problem since forever.

you are working for better life but u don t care about hereafter , a balanced, smart and muslim work for both. this what you are trying to avoid when it comes to any debate everyone hate to hear about islamic scriptures ,everyone would like give his point ignoring religion,YES religion is everywhere in our life as muslim accept it or not i agree it is your right but please don t pretend love for this religion if you don t like to apply it .
if i am debating with non muslim like my colleague at work i do not get my religion involved but when i am debating with you i will be hypocrite if you are talking about homosexuality an trying to explain the psychology aspect of a gay as if it is normal phenomena if we continue talking like this tomorrow it will be acceptable someone has to correct that i think.

it is all about choices as long as we are clear about it and not turning around the bush.
there is difference between respecting people choice and accepting it.and none
can give you a ticket as your said to kafirdom except.... YOURSELF.

"Ladies and Gentlemen, this was a rehearsal of your next friday sermon
So ? What d'ya think ?"

Sarah70, now you're bordering on takfirism, you realize that right ?
aré lia dak a'rrass n'boussou, dda7aktini

sarah70

15 November 2006 12:41

salam alaykum

waldi chelhaman ( since you want tbouss rassi like you do with your mom)

Quote
Sarah70, now you're bordering on takfirism, you realize that right

read me again< you did not get what i mean right?

i don t beleive on calling any muslim kafir bcoz only Allah knows what in their hearth therefore none has to beleive even on takfirism.

i see sometimes u missunderstand me u are unable to read between my lines let make it clear.

it is about choices if someone wants to be kafir bcoz he chooses that. it is not bcoz someone is
calling him kafir .

[quote="Ladies and Gentlemen, this was a rehearsal of your next friday sermon][/quote]

here we go again whoever talk about religion in debate he is making friday sermont .as i said your focus is dounya ONLY no balance there.

since u r talking about friday sermon i though u r busy on friday don t have time to attend friday prayer (still it is non business.at least you get a resume of the sermon

chelhman

15 November 2006 12:53

Sarah70, I get what you mean everytime. And what I get, is that you don't get me smiling smiley

I'm exercizing my right of self-criticism but you systematically view it as an attack on our faith, you lack empathy in your approach, that's why you're defensive. But it's ok, I'm used to it by now.

P.S : "bouss arrass" is a sign of respect, whatever you might think of me, I respect you a lalla sarah70 smiling smiley

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2006 12:54 by chelhman.

moirk

15 November 2006 13:36

Did any body read the book by:
Michel A. Boisard,
L'Humanisme de l'islam,
Albin Michel

zaki7

15 November 2006 18:31

Quote
sarah70
salam alaykum

zaki7

Quote
That is unfortunately what gives Islam a bad image. We have always been taught from the very early ages that we were the best, that we hold the absolute truth in hands and that whoever does not believe in what we believe is an outsider and a kafir per definition.

you sound more acquainted to other religion than yours i know i know you love your religion which Islam but it is muslim that are bad bcoz they are not tolerant terrorist ,read the script or only and take it as it is .

I read the scriptures, and if the scriptures for you justify killing of civilians, they don't for me. I think you should read all the scriptures, that will give you a wider idea on how "other" people think, what are their values compared to the muslim values. there is nothing wrong in seeking knowledge, including other religions. Remember, Islam came to complete and correct the picture...

to avoid picking on islam, u pick on muslims it is really too sad ,i never know there is some moroccans like this

Of course, I am criticizing muslims, when a religion is mis-used, who would you blaim? God? You'd blame whoever doesn't get the message right.

just i have qst for all of you guys how do u like muslims deal with kitab and sunna ?take part of it and leave other part oh yeah yeah read it with other books.
i need to now which book u mean (scientific literature socio eco...) we never have problem since forever.

you are working for better life but u don t care about hereafter , a balanced, smart and muslim work for both. this what you are trying to avoid when it comes to any debate everyone hate to hear about islamic scriptures ,everyone would like give his point ignoring religion,YES religion is everywhere in our life as muslim accept it or not i agree it is your right but please don t pretend love for this religion if you don t like to apply it .

I think you just left on the side "Al Islam dinoune wa douniya". Religion is not everywhere in life. The Coran clearly states that. How can you dismiss this teaching from the book and at teh same time say that we need to follow the book.

if i am debating with non muslim like my colleague at work i do not get my religion involved but when i am debating with you i will be hypocrite if you are talking about homosexuality an trying to explain the psychology aspect of a gay as if it is normal phenomena if we continue talking like this tomorrow it will be acceptable someone has to correct that i think.

it is all about choices as long as we are clear about it and not turning around the bush.

there is difference between respecting people choice and accepting it.and none
can give you a ticket as your said to kafirdom except.... YOURSELF.

sarah70

15 November 2006 19:04

salam alaykum

zaki7

Quote
Religion is not everywhere in life. The Coran clearly states that. How can you dismiss this teaching from the book and at teh same time say that we need to follow the book.

you misunderstand what religion is about ,not only praying,fasting...... it is more than that .

Quote
read the scriptures, and if the scriptures for you justify killing of civilians

from where u get to that conclusion are u judging whole nation based on what few criminals think there is difference between blaspheming and constructive critics.

shushita

15 November 2006 20:37

hi everybody,
for me the problem is not islam. the problem is our wrong perception of our religion. the first example of tolerance & love of his brethren and people from different creeds is our prophet (PBBUH). thus he's humanistic and a muslim at the same time. remember his jew neighbour and how bad he treated him; throwing rubbish at his door. however, our prophet (PBBUH) asked abt his news when he was not there.
so, the problem is that we're far from the teachiongs of our religion. in short we're muslims by condition not by conviction

sarah70

15 November 2006 21:33

salam alaykum

shushita

Absolutely right, there is not doubt about that and any constructive critics is most welcomed.

AL3ARBIYANA1

15 November 2006 21:56

Assalamo-Alikoum;

We All can Learn something from each other & Correct some of our information, this is the Beauty of Living another beautiful day like today, Masha-Allah, So Let's See what we can share at this moment insha-Allah,

Let's Sat some facts straight, which means show us a proof in the Noble Qur'aan & "Teaching of the Prophet" Mohamed PBUH or what is called "Sunnah"of course you don't have too if only sharing your thoughts/ideas/comments, not haram in Islam to do so unless arguing a mater dealt with by AL Moushari3 Allah Subhanaho-Wa-Ta3ala in His Own Words "Qur'aan" OR From Sayidina Mohamed PBUH as Allah Chosen Him, Commands, & Guide Him to do, Therefore Allah is Telling Us About Prophet Mohamed PBUH Message (Islam and teachings) or as Allah Said (some references): "Wama Yantiqo 3ani Al-Hawa in Houwwa illa Wahyoun Youhha,... from verse in Qur’aan.

Now we sat The Grounds, Let's emphasize some of those beautiful teachings as Our Beloved Messenger Thought Us, One example here only cause time won't permit more, The Oummah" Did you know that the Oummah of Prophet & Messenger Mohamed PBUH includes All the people we see today around us? How so? Yes all Christians, Jews, Muslims etc, well then why? Every Single Human Being is Born Since The First Day The Message Came to Rassuli-Allah & Until The End of This Life on This Planet Earth "Last-day, Judgment-day" Till The END All Are Called The Oummah of Prophet Mohamed & All of them will come & lineup behind the Messenger of their time in our case here it is Mohamed PBUH, Not Christians Behind Jesus Nor Jews Behind Moses etc,

This Tell Us Quiet allot about this Unique/Universal Message of Islam to Mankind "Wama Arssalnaka illa Rahmatan Lil-3alamin,..” Not Just to: Arabs people, Turquish people, OR Muslims in particular; which Many People from All Backgrounds Think it is. Now These People we see, work with, live with, study with, etc are not just extras but Allah Has Made them Part of the Oummah of Prophet Mohamed PBUH therefore they have many rights from Islam even if they are not Muslims, Amazing! Isn’t it, Subhana-Allah, Yes I was Surprised Just Like You First Time I Learned this & did some wondering and reflections about it until I swallow it properly & correctly,

Participate insha-Allah By Sharing with Us All:

Who is Our Oummah ?
What is The Oummah Means?
Why it Means That "Oummah" ?
How it is This Word Oummah ?
When Can We Call it Oummah ?

May Allah Rewards You All, Walahmdulillahi Rabbi Al-3alamine,..

"Do Not Worry if The Whole World is Right & You Are Wrong But Worry Alot if You Are The Only 1 Right, Since it's Almost Impossible for That to Be True, Winks, Ha, ha, ha"

Mfun

15 November 2006 23:42

Salam,

So there is a lot humanist and muslim still there.But nobody pm me and ask what i need ? What's my problem ?

Maybe you must think that,have you islam soul truly ? or for who tell i'm humanist,realy are you ?

Thanks i don't need any more help.May peace be with you.

Assalamu Alaykum.

riffman

16 November 2006 11:36

OK, for this context... here is the a definition of Humanist: Of or pertaining to a philosophy asserting human dignity and man's capacity for fulfilment through reason and scientific method. and here is the definition of square: A formal and conservative person with old-fashioned views
And both to do with our religion.
Why do we (as moroccans) always have to measure if we are more moslem than the others? if we are more intelligent than the others, if my car is more expensive than yours, if I went to a better school than the others?
I've been to many moroccan sites, and it seems the copy... we try to discuss religion, jews, palestine, the middle east, etc... and rarely about Morocco.
When one post something... he has to think twice before pressing enter... cos you know you'll be criticised, or lynched, or labeled "kafir" in different words. And let's not forget that writing is different than speaking, written language can be easily misunderstood depending on culture, belief, mood, etc...
We are under the same umbrella, we are MOROCCANS, whether, Arab, Chelh, Soussi, Rifi, Djebli, Jewish, Christian or Moslem.

shushita

17 November 2006 17:58

i deffinitely agree with you Mr Riffman. i've noticed something in our community; we always underestimate ourselves and each other. we see ourselves via the others. we give the other person more value than he/she deserves. and as u say we compare ourselves to him; we are always in a state of selfdeffense. we have the complex of the other; what he/she will think of me, how do other people see me. But who cares? in my point of view the problem comes from within, something deep inside. our lack of solid religious bockground and good understanding of our creed make us talk about humanism and islam as two separate things. In fact htey go hand in hand. in other words, they complement each other. we only need to get nearer to our holy Quran and our Sunnaa and we'll certainly find the answer to all our questions.(tm)

sarah70

17 November 2006 18:04

salam alaykum

shushita

thumbs up

shushita

17 November 2006 19:26

Quote
sarah70
salam alaykum

shushita

thanks dear smiling smiley

it's only the truth

zaki7

17 November 2006 20:36

We are not comparing X to Y to find out who is right or who is better. We are comparing for the sake of argument. The topic starts by putting humanists VS muslims, the comparison is made from there. To sum up, in my opinion, Islam is a humanist religion, muslims as of today are in their majority very far from that humanist message. Muslims today are not inclusive in their view of the world. When we hear "the influences western world" or "we don't need non-muslims or whatever they can bring us", it is the perfect illustation of a protectionism that comes from a misguided interpretation of the main message of Islam.

What muslims need to do today is the opposite, they need to open up, they need to acknowledge that they are lagging behing "few centuries" and going from there, they need to start taking what the western world has to give them and may be in few centuries, they will be again leading the world with their science and knowledge and wisdom instead of what they're doing now. Christians in this case were smarter and their understanding of christianity never blocked them from opening up to muslims when muslims were living their golden ages. They learned arabic, they interacted with muslim philosophers, doctors, scientist, they respected them for their knowledge and they went with that baggage to enlighten Europe with a renaissance that still shines today. We need to stop the "US" and "THEM" mentality and we certainly need to stop the "We are the most intelligent, most beautiful, most righteous..." just because it happens that we are muslims.

My 2 cents... You don't have to agree with me...

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2006 08:52 by zaki7.

AL3ARBIYANA1

17 November 2006 23:43

Hello/Salam;
Alot Muslims Don't even know or understand what is islam, Just being Born Muslim, Or Cary An islamic Name Does Not Make You A True Good Muslim, ignorance is a major factor in the life of Muslims All over the World alot of confusion going on between what is from islamic Shari3a and Local Traditions

"Do Not Worry if The Whole World is Right & You Are Wrong But Worry Alot if You Are The Only 1 Right, Since it's Almost Impossible for That to Be True, Winks, Ha, ha, ha"

baba123

19 November 2006 15:46

Calling Muslims not humanist and not inclusive is wrong; no one denies that there are some ignorant but very few.
Let me ask couple questions.
1) Can some one name one western country that still have Muslims living there a after the crusaders invaded that country or retake it ?
2) Why do we still have Christians and Jews in countries with Muslim majority?
3) Do we still see Christian Nuns with the head scarf in Muslims countries and no one trying to prohibit it?
4) Why are we seeing one western country after the other banning the Hijab?