Morocco # English board

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Sweetlatifa
I am just describing the holy message of Allah, full of wisdom.

God is fair and if we fellow his teachings, no one will be wronged.

There is no discrimination in Islam. The problem is not with the religion itself but with the way it is applied..and maybe that's where the rub is...Don't you think so?

Your logic is really funny regarding this.

A woman inherits half and for you this is not discrimination!

you say Islam hold the men financially responsible. Isn't this discrimination as well? if the woman earns as much as the man, why shouldn't they be equally responsible?

You know, you should learn how to have some thinking,the you will be be to have some wisdom...

Yes ,men are held financially responsible, women can participate in the expenses, it's not in the least forbidden...

You know, so many women have chosen to stay at home and take care of their children, so how do you want them to be equally responsible???

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Passerby

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Sweetlatifa
I am just describing the holy message of Allah, full of wisdom.

God is fair and if we fellow his teachings, no one will be wronged.

There is no discrimination in Islam. The problem is not with the religion itself but with the way it is applied..and maybe that's where the rub is...Don't you think so?

Your logic is really funny regarding this.

A woman inherits half and for you this is not discrimination!

you say Islam hold the men financially responsible. Isn't this discrimination as well? if the woman earns as much as the man, why shouldn't they be equally responsible?

I am sorry but i desagree i won t just blame people for the discrimination i do think that some shariaa laws are so unfair sesxist and discriminiting
for exemple
ther is a hadith sa7i7e which says: hell will be full of women more women than men will be in hell !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! why? and please nothing to do with the number of women ther are sa7aba interpretaion to this which says clearly because women are more likely to follow shaytane???? na9isato dinine wa a3kle!!!!!!!!!!!!! = DISCRIMINATION
in chariaa court one man in a witness box even if this man has a bad caracter with bad reputaion his words are equal to 2 women and still 2 women witnessing is considered weak and not 100 per cent accurate and credible why? is it because a man has a penis and women not sorry for the word but really this is a shameful law which undermind women and classify them as minors or retarded creatures

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Sweetlatifa
You know, you should learn how to have some thinking,the you will be be to have some wisdom...

Yes ,men are held financially responsible, women can participate in the expenses, it's not in the least forbidden...

You know, so many women have chosen to stay at home and take care of their children, so how do you want them to be equally responsible???

Of course she can participate. But if she doesn't want, she can keep her money and do with it whatever she wants.

let me try something else, Islam says that in a court, a woman witness is worth half a men, what is your justification for this?

Ok guys calm down!!!!, I'll try to answer your questions.

First of all, I am a young woman, and as a Muslim, I do not feel any injustice or whatsoever.

There are so many misconceptions about Islam.

QURAN, 2:282:
O Beleivers, when you contract a debt for a fixed term,
you should put it in writing....

.....And let two men from among you bear witness to all
such documents. But if two men are not available,
there should be one man and two women to bear
witness so that if one of the women forgets (anything),
the other may remind her ......

"We should understand that equality is something different from sameness. Actually it is the latter that the feminist movement nowadays call for, while Islam and sound intellect totally reject it. Men and women are different emotionally as well as in physical characteristics and endurance. Hence they were naturally created for two different, but complementary, functions and roles. This has been demonstrated by the variance of roles of men and women in all ages, civilizations, and cultures".

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Sweetlatifa
Ok guys calm down!!!!, I'll try to answer your questions.

First of all, I am a young woman, and as a Muslim, I do not feel any injustice or whatsoever.

There are so many misconceptions about Islam.

QURAN, 2:282:
O Beleivers, when you contract a debt for a fixed term,
you should put it in writing....

.....And let two men from among you bear witness to all
such documents. But if two men are not available,
there should be one man and two women to bear
witness so that if one of the women forgets (anything),
the other may remind her ......

Actually, it's worse than what I thought then, not only a woman's testimony is worth half, but on top of that, there must be a man witness as well that agrees with them. Otherwise it doesn't count!

ok, let me try something else, why do women have to cover up from head to toe while men can dress as they want? why a man can marry 4 women and women only one man?

sweetlatifa
in case the woman forget!!!!!!!!!!!! a man can remind her !!!!!!!!!!! what the hell is this logic shoking
as far as i know amnesia is not an illness which just women suffer from is it?????
alzheimer too ???

passerby add to what you wrote,
a muslim man can marry a jew woman without the jew wife have to convert to islam
a muslim man can marry a christian who drinks and smokes it s ok no problem
BUT amuslim woman can not and not allowed to marry a husband from an other religion without that he converts first
did you know that there is 5 years in prison in morocco if a moroccan woman marries a non muslim !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
in other countries execution is the punishment, this is just great

WHy is it worse, I don't get it???

First of all, men are not allowed to dress whatever they want either in Islam. There is a dress code for both.Men and women should dress in a modest way and lower their gaze.

In the past women were degraded and used as objects of lust, that's why God sent a verse about Hijab.

People usually only discuss ‘hijaab’ in the context of women. However, in the Glorious Qur’an, Allah (swt) first mentions ‘hijaab’ for men before ‘hijaab’ for the women. The Qur’an mentions in Surah Noor:

"Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: and Allah is well acquainted with all that they do."
[Al-Qur’an 24:30]

The moment a man looks at a woman and if any brazen or unashamed thought comes to his mind, he should lower his gaze.

Hijaab for women.

The next verse of Surah Noor, says:

" And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands’ fathers, their sons..."
[Al-Qur’an 24:31]

The other woman can remind her

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whatsup
sweetlatifa
in case the woman forget!!!!!!!!!!!! a man can remind her !!!!!!!!!!! what the hell is this logic shoking as far as i know amnesia is not an illness which just women suffer from is it?????
alzheimer too ???

Indeed, Islam like most other religions, is full of discrimination, especially towards women.

I am sure sweetlatifa will come along and pretend that all of this is normal, there is no discrimination. She probably has a different meaning for this word.

Where is it written in the KOran??? We are discussing the laws of the Koran not the Moroccan laws, be careful not to mix everything...

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whatsup
passerby add to what you wrote,
a muslim man can marry a jew woman without the jew wife have to convert to islam
a muslim man can marry a christian who drinks and smokes it s ok no problem
BUT amuslim woman can not and not allowed to marry a husband from an other religion without that he converts first
did you know that there is 5 years in prison in morocco if a moroccan woman marries a non muslim !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
in other countries execution is the punishment, this is just great

ok sweetlatifa
i am sorry i know you are trying to defend the shariaa law but unfortunately discrimination exist
in the quran it states clearly
muslim woman not allowed to marry non muslim , but muslim men have all the right to marry women from other religions without the need to convert
i don t remember the exact hadiths and riwayats but there are cases of women in sahaba time they were executed by swords because they want to marry a non muslim men
why ???

Whatsup, don't be sorry, if you do not agree with the islamic laws, it's your own right.We are merely discussing some points.

Western society claims to have uplifted women but on the contrary it has actually degraded them to the status of meat, tools in the hands of pleasure seekers and sex marketers, hidden behind the colourful screen of ‘art’ and ‘culture’.

Islam elevated the status of women:

"Long ago, when baby boys were born, they brought great joy to the family. The birth of a girl was greeted with considerably less joy and enthusiasm. Sometimes, girls were hated so much that they were buried alive. Islam has always been against this irrational discrimination against girls and female infanticide."

"A Muslim woman is not oppressed, in fact, she is liberated. This is because she is no longer valued for something material, such as her good looks or the shape of her body. She compels others to judge her for her intelligence, kindness, honesty and personality. Therefore, people judge her for who she actually is."

There does exist a gap between the rights of women outlined in the Qur'an, and the prevalent reality in the Muslim world. However, images of Muslim women as ignorant, oppressed and submissive are stereotypical and do no justice to the large number of Muslim women whose firm conviction in the Islamic concepts of family cohesiveness and happiness, and their own individuality, ensures their sense of self-fulfillment.

Hello
In the Qoraan it is actually stated that women deserve 1/2 what men get when distributing a will.If u think that 1=1/2 we're not using the same references
It's also stated that in a jury you will need 2 women voices to equal a man voice, can't remember exactely if it's Qoraan or Chari3a?
When Prophete mary Lala Khadija she was 45 yo go ask any muslim to marry an old lady and listen waht he'll say.
They want a 10 yo girl to bring back youth to their balls.

Men everywhere are the same but muslim men are obssesed only with women and their balls.

Most of islamic laws are for segregation between men and women, of course the man has the most pwerful rights over his belongings.

Islam could be a perfect religion if it omits the differences between men and women and consider theme as humain living, but unfortenately? it was not.
Averroes already said that Muslim laws are for swine.(Jewish law for kids and Christian are impossible laws.)
Women in west they're free really free.If they're naked averywhere they were not forced to do so,it's their choice at least.
A muslim women(talking about muslims women in general, not the moroccans who are considered whores once they're free from the religious prejudice) has no rights, she always need a guardian to live or even to die.
So trying to say that Islam free women is not true.
If it's true how many muslim women had been a head of state a muslim state i mean? none

Before Islam everybody knows about Queen Sheba, Cleopatre and some less known others
Lalla Khdija for example was a business woman before she becomes a muslim; but after her how many were
in the business?.
The worst, is actually, is the degradation and complexity of Islam, when mixed up with some strange cultural behaviours and believes.

Hi,

Then I'll have to say that your knowledge is somehow limited...
Some Muslim women leaders

1988-90 and 1993-96 Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto, Pakistan

1999-2000 Vice-Premier Minister Rima Khalaf Hneidi, Jordan

1996-2001 Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina Wajed, Bangladesh

2001-04 Executive President Megawati Sukarnoputri, Indonesia

2006- Minister of Foreign Affairs Joy Ogwu, Nigeria

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ichiadmia
Hello
In the Qoraan it is actually stated that women deserve 1/2 what men get when distributing a will.If u think that 1=1/2 we're not using the same references
It's also stated that in a jury you will need 2 women voices to equal a man voice, can't remember exactely if it's Qoraan or Chari3a?
When Prophete mary Lala Khadija she was 45 yo go ask any muslim to marry an old lady and listen waht he'll say.
They want a 10 yo girl to bring back youth to their balls.

Men everywhere are the same but muslim men are obssesed only with women and their balls.

Most of islamic laws are for segregation between men and women, of course the man has the most pwerful rights over his belongings.

Islam could be a perfect religion if it omits the differences between men and women and consider theme as humain living, but unfortenately? it was not.
Averroes already said that Muslim laws are for swine.(Jewish law for kids and Christian are impossible laws.)
Women in west they're free really free.If they're naked averywhere they were not forced to do so,it's their choice at least.
A muslim women(talking about muslims women in general, not the moroccans who are considered whores once they're free from the religious prejudice) has no rights, she always need a guardian to live or even to die.
So trying to say that Islam free women is not true.
If it's true how many muslim women had been a head of state a muslim state i mean? none
Before Islam everybody knows about Queen Sheba, Cleopatre and some less known others
Lalla Khdija for example was a business woman before she becomes a muslim; but after her how many were
in the business?.
The worst, is actually, is the degradation and complexity of Islam, when mixed up with some strange cultural behaviours and believes.

sweetlatifa
what you wrote is irrelevant to the reality and what shariaa law says
ther is no stereotyping or prejudice or whatsoever, women in islam are considered inferior , they have no rights
most muslim women are oppressed , they don t have no right to decide what they wish to o with their life

a muslim woman has no right to visit her parents if her husband says no , she has to obey
if her husband says , don t visit your mother !!!!!!!!! and she went ahead and visited her mother , in islam is considered a crime she is a sinner
in islam there is a surat which allow man to hit and beat his wife, if the woman is what we call in arabic, NACHIZ in other word doesn t want to have sex with her husband he has the right to give her a good beating and force her to have sex with him because it is his right in the religion point of view

Have a look at Prophet Muhammad's (peace be upon him) attitude towards his wives. He never forced any of them to do anything. There were times when they corrected him and when they yelled at him and he did not get angry. He was very patient and respectful of them. For a happy marriage, there must be mutual respect and understanding. No superiority/inferiority. Both are equal in God's eyes.

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whatsup
sweetlatifa
what you wrote is irrelevant to the reality and what shariaa law says
ther is no stereotyping or prejudice or whatsoever, women in islam are considered inferior , they have no rights
most muslim women are oppressed , they don t have no right to decide what they wish to o with their life

a muslim woman has no right to visit her parents if her husband says no , she has to obey
if her husband says , don t visit your mother !!!!!!!!! and she went ahead and visited her mother , in islam is considered a crime she is a sinner in islam there is a surat which allow man to hit and beat his wife, if the woman is what we call in arabic, NACHIZ in other word doesn t want to have sex with her husband he has the right to give her a good beating and force her to have sex with him because it is his right in the religion point of view

So why are they always complaining??? Saying that they are regarded as sex objects???

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ichiadmia
Hello
In the Qoraan it is actually stated that women deserve 1/2 what men get when distributing a will.If u think that 1=1/2 we're not using the same references
It's also stated that in a jury you will need 2 women voices to equal a man voice, can't remember exactely if it's Qoraan or Chari3a?
When Prophete mary Lala Khadija she was 45 yo go ask any muslim to marry an old lady and listen waht he'll say.
They want a 10 yo girl to bring back youth to their balls.

Men everywhere are the same but muslim men are obssesed only with women and their balls.

Most of islamic laws are for segregation between men and women, of course the man has the most pwerful rights over his belongings.

Islam could be a perfect religion if it omits the differences between men and women and consider theme as humain living, but unfortenately? it was not.
Averroes already said that Muslim laws are for swine.(Jewish law for kids and Christian are impossible laws.)
Women in west they're free really free.If they're naked averywhere they were not forced to do so,it's their choice at least.A muslim women(talking about muslims women in general, not the moroccans who are considered whores once they're free from the religious prejudice) has no rights, she always need a guardian to live or even to die.
So trying to say that Islam free women is not true.
If it's true how many muslim women had been a head of state a muslim state i mean? none

Before Islam everybody knows about Queen Sheba, Cleopatre and some less known others
Lalla Khdija for example was a business woman before she becomes a muslim; but after her how many were
in the business?.
The worst, is actually, is the degradation and complexity of Islam, when mixed up with some strange cultural behaviours and believes.

I don t think european women are complaining to the dregree to seek asylum in a muslim country for protection!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I never heard of a french woman or swedish lady went to saoudi arabia asking them for protection because of injustice in europe !!!!
how many muslim women are seeking asylum and protection in europe , usa, australia and canada
european women are equal to european men no difference they are considered citizens equal rights
they have the freedom and the choice to do whatever they wish with their lives even become a head of state , it s up to them if they want to be a judge or a preacher , a waitress or a soldier , a model in TV ads or a teacher , this is called freedom of choice one of the main basis of human rights
there is no ground for comparaison because woman in islam is still a slave others decide for her under shariaa law she has to obey because god said so
I don t think any woman in this planet accept that her husband marry an other three but because the religion says so , thats justice
i don t think any woman accept to get married at 6 or 9 she prefers to play in the playgrounds and buy dolls but because the prophet married aicha at 6 it s ok let s give all the paedophiles the right to rape little girls on a golden plate because the religion allows this

Who's talking about going to a muslim country for protection?

Wait a minute, you are mixing everything up, you are not clear...
Muslim women seeking asylum??? Who are you talking about??? Some women may seek asylum because of the nasty environment not beacuse of Islam.

Islam is a choice not an obligation, so if some women do not feel comfortable with the religion,they can give it up, God do not need you or someone else, He is Self-Sufficient!!!

POLYGYNY

Firstly, polygyny is related to some social need (in war time, lots of orphans suffer and widowed mothers feel powerless)

"The verse in fact indicates that absolute justice between wives is beyond human capacity, for it involves exact equality in everything, even in the distribution of affection, love, and sexual satisfaction, which is beyond man’s power. A man may not help being attracted to one of his wives more than to the others; hearts are within the Hand of Almighty Allah Who changes them however He wills. [A man’s feelings are not subject to his will.]

WHo told you that Muslim women can get married at the age of 6 or 9???

DO not be blind to fellow anti islam activists...

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whatsup
I don t think european women are complaining to the dregree to seek asylum in a muslim country for protection!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I never heard of a french woman or swedish lady went to saoudi arabia asking them for protection because of injustice in europe !!!!
how many muslim women are seeking asylum and protection in europe , usa, australia and canada
european women are equal to european men no difference they are considered citizens equal rights
they have the freedom and the choice to do whatever they wish with their lives even become a head of state , it s up to them if they want to be a judge or a preacher , a waitress or a soldier , a model in TV ads or a teacher , this is called freedom of choice one of the main basis of human rights
there is no ground for comparaison because woman in islam is still a slave others decide for her under shariaa law she has to obey because god said so
I don t think any woman in this planet accept that her husband marry an other three but because the religion says so , thats justice
i don t think any woman accept to get married at 6 or 9 she prefers to play in the playgrounds and buy dolls but because the prophet married aicha at 6 it s ok let s give all the paedophiles the right to rape little girls on a golden plate because the religion allows this

"A husband must live with his wife honorably, kindly and with respect. He must maintain a decent, clean and acceptable appearance when he relaxes in his household, just as he likes his wife to do for him at home, since this is only mutual respect and decency to one another. The Prophet of Allah (Peace be upon Him) said, encouraging and explaining the comprehensive principle about good character and behavior":

"The most complete believers are those with the best characters, and the best of you are those who are best to their womenfolk."

[Tirmidhi #1162 & Ibn Hibbaan and verified]

The Messenger of Allah (Peace be upon Him) used to mend his own clothes or shoes and help his wives with their daily chores. His wife Aishah (may Allah exalt their mention) was once asked:

"What did the Messenger of Allah use to do while at home?"
She responded: "He used to serve and assist his household, and when he would hear the call to prayer, he would leave to pray."

[Bukhari #644]

I am a muslim and do not consider myself a slave or oppressed...

doesn't Islam recommend beating the wife if she misbehaves?

[www.youtube.com]

The thing lies in the need for the distinction between Islam and the behavior of some Muslims.

Our universal example is our Prophet Muhammad (PBUH): He never hit any female, and he used to say that the best of men are those who do not hit their wives.

In one hadith he expressed his extreme repulsion from this behavior and said, "How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then embrace (sleep with) her?” (Al-Bukhari, English Translation, vol. 8, Hadith 68, pp. 42-43)

"Do not beat the female servants of Allah";

"Some (women) visited my family complaining about their husbands (beating them). These (husbands) are not the best of you."

How can you say that Islam encourages wife beating???

It's written in the Quran

"Waddribuhuna..."

Should I believe you or believe the Imam on tv?

You know, there are lots of immams who have different viewpoints on the matter...

The word "idribuhuna" does not mean to beat up the wife.

It means to hit her lightly (avoiding the face because hitting the face is forbidden in Islam) a hitting that is "ghayr mubarrih", which does not cause harm to the body, like bruising or breaking a bone.


Ata' said: "I asked Ibn Abbas: 'What is the hitting that is ghayr al-mubarrih?' He replied: '[With] the siwak and the like'." Narrated by al-Tabari in his Tafsir. (probably on the tafsir of this verse itself [4:34]

You see it's has nothing to do with beating!!! It's just an image!!!

But our Prophet (PBUH) encouraged communication and as I said before he never hit any female, on the contrary, his wives used to scream at him!!!!

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Sweetlatifa
You know, there are lots of immams who have different viewpoints on the matter...

The word "idribuhuna" does not mean to beat up the wife.

It means to hit her lightly (avoiding the face because hitting the face is forbidden in Islam) a hitting that is "ghayr mubarrih", which does not cause harm to the body, like bruising or breaking a bone.


Ata' said: "I asked Ibn Abbas: 'What is the hitting that is ghayr al-mubarrih?' He replied: '[With] the siwak and the like'." Narrated by al-Tabari in his Tafsir. (probably on the tafsir of this verse itself [4:34]

You see it's has nothing to do with beating!!! It's just an image!!!

But our Prophet (PBUH) encouraged communication and as I said before he never hit any female, on the contrary, his wives used to scream at him!!!!

funny how you are ready to change the meaning of a word to accomodate your belief!

OK, Islam authorizes men to hit their wives lightly, does this seem fair to you?

I am not changing anything...Let me remind you that I am a young woman, do you really think that i will believe in a religion that promotes wife beating??? It does not make sense!!!

Just read about the Prophet's (PBUH) life and you will see, no wife beating at all, on the contrary, he used to treat women as flowers...

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Sweetlatifa
I am not changing anything...Let me remind you that I am a young woman, do you really think that i will believe in a religion that promotes wife beating??? It does not make sense!!!

Just read about the Prophet's (PBUH) life and you will see, no wife beating at all, on the contrary, he used to treat women as flowers...

you just said that Islam says the wifes can be beaten lightly (although, the lightly is not mentionned in the Quran).