Londoners have paid the price for Iraq and Afghanistan, says George Galloway.
The Respect MP, whose Bethnal Green and Bow constituency includes the site of at least one of the bomb attacks, said the attacks were "despicable".
He told the Commons it was the US-led coalition's actions in Afghanistan, Iraq and Guantanamo which had inflamed hatred of the West in the Muslim world.
But minister Adam Ingram accused Mr Galloway of "dipping his poisonous tongue in a pool of blood".
The armed forces minister added that Mr Galloway's comments were "disgraceful".
Same mistakes?
Earlier Mr Galloway said he was absolutely clear the bombings had been carried out by Islamic extremists inspired by Osama Bin Laden's world outlook.
He argued that the bombings had not come out of the "clear blue sky" - the background was the invasion of Afghanistan, Iraq, photographs of abuses by US troops at Abu Ghraib prison and the continuing confinement of people by America at Guantanamo.
Mr Galloway said the West was in danger of making the same mistakes over and over again, continuing with "war and occupation as the principal instrument of our foreign and defence policy".
He added: "And if we do then some people will get through and hurt us as they have hurt us today."
Paid the price?
Mr Galloway who was expelled from the Labour Party over his outspoken comments on the Iraq war, linked the deaths of people in London to the deaths of those in Falluja at the hands of coalition forces.
Earlier, in a statement, the MP said: "The loss of innocent lives, whether in this country or Iraq, is precisely the result of a world that has become a less safe and peaceful place in recent years.
"We have worked without rest to remove the causes of such violence from our world.
"We argued, as did the security services in this country, that the attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq would increase the threat of terrorist attack in Britain.
"Tragically Londoners have now paid the price of the government ignoring such warnings."
'No immunity'
Mr Galloway urged the government to remove people in the UK from "harm's way" by ending the occupation of Iraq and focusing on finding a real solution to conflicts in the Middle East.
Downing Street declined to comment on Mr Galloway's comments.
But Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said it was wrong to think that withdrawing from Iraq would make the UK immune from the threat of attacks.
"People have to remember that 11 September was in 2001 before the military action," he said.
The US terror attacks had caused the action in Afghanistan and the changed atmosphere they had created had contributed to the cause of the Iraq war, said Mr Straw.
I hold the same admiration for Mr Georges galloway as you do, he seems to be one of the very few politiciant that are not rotten to the bone, he speaks the truth and dare to say things that other maistream politicians will never say.
Yes I would have liked if some one could do the same in Morocco, but Morocco is still a long way behind, the Moroccan regime (King, Government, Army, secret police ... ) will never let someone like Georges galloway free, take for example what happened to Nadia Yassine she will be jailed for up to 4 years for having said that she thinks that a republican system is better and more fair to the Moroccans than the monarchi. The same opinion is shared by millions of Moroccans but no one could say it openly.
Si Arabi, Comparing Galloway to Nadia, is going a bit too far, in my view. I think there are good changes that are taking place in morocco today, do I think it’s enough? NO, do I think the speed is good? NO, but do I think the country will be better off if nadia and her group are in power? Heck NO… I think she is using/abusing the baby democracy that is just been introduced in morocco to spread her agenda. Yes to freedom of speech, but it’s new for us and we have first to know what it is to use it and not abuse it.
Remember we are just 4-5 years from Tazmamarte and Basri,
Salaam,
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2005 12:43 by almotanabi.
Brother Almotanabi to like or hate Nadia Yassine is not the point, I am just trying to explain that Morocco is still a long way behind the UK in terms of freedom of speach.
I just wander if the ones who think of themselves as the brain in Morocco (Pro government journalists and Moroccan upper class) would have reacted the same way if some Moroccan atheist like the editor of the online magasine telquel (which publishes loads of ribbish) has said the saim thing ????
Yes I have lived and grouw up in Morocco and I have witnessed the dark ages (the rain of terror under H2) and I think M6 though with no personality or strong leadership is far better that his father, I also aknoledge that there is still a long way to go.
With regards to abusing the feedom of speach, as far as I know she only gave her personal opinion, you can disagree with me but I know very few Moroccans who are keen on living in a monarach and it tend to be mainly very old people 60+ if you see what I mean.
Brother Arabi, Wa alayka essalaam warahmatou allah,
First I have to tell you that I don’t hate Nadia Yassine, I don’t hate anyone in the world period. But I fear her and her views; I fear what her group is capable of doing and where they could take morocco if given a chance. No brother, I disagree with you when you said she only gave her personal opinion, when you are a group leader, a political party leader, you do speak for your group or party, nadia speaks for al adl wa alihsan, and this is clear it seems to me, and her views about the monarch could trigger instability in the country. Yes it would be foolish of us to compare the British democracy with the Moroccan “democracy”, and so, I’m not disappointed if there are no Galloways or Mondelas in morocco yet, I’m sure it’s just a matter of time. I also I’m not sure if as you said only the 60+ people are for the monarchy and M6. I’m not 60, and If my choice is to have a regime like the one in Algeria or any other Arab country for that matter, if my choice is to have any regime like the ones in Africa, I rather thousand times have my M6 and our monarchy with all the work that it still needs and all the defects, Galloway is a good person, but lets not forget he’s also a politician. Salaam,
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2005 08:27 by almotanabi.
See brother almotanabi it's always like that, we are all for democraty and blabla but when the people want to choose some one outside the main stream political leaders.
Some people begin to shout and scream that it's not possible. I dont know if you are aware of the fact that "al adl wa alihsan" has the bigist number of followers in morocco well ahead of any moroccan political party.
Al am not a member of "al adl wa alihsan" nor has any link to them, but i respect the choice of the moroccan people whatever that choice is.
I’m for democracy Si Arabi, but I like first, to give the chance to the seeds of democracy to grow, the west didn’t turn to democracy overnight.. it’s a process that requires institutions which we didn’t have before, and if nadia attacks these immature institutions now, a great damage could be done.
You said: “it's always like that, we are all for democraty and blabla but when the people want to choose some one outside the main stream political leaders.” I can’t disagree with you totally here, the democracy that nadia and her pals will give morocco is the same one Taliban gave Afghanistan, it’s the democracy that starts with, if you don’t do this and this like me, then you are kaafir, she and her group want to take back all the changes that were made in morocco, they did not see the killers who bomb Casablanca as terrorists until the public opinion turned on them. or do you think like some in this forum, like London, we should just link it to Iraq war? And yet morocco has no part in Iraq war. As I said in a previous post, Casablanca, New York, Jeddah, Madrid and London are crimes and inhuman. We could go on blaming all that killers and murderers do in the Islamic world on the war in Iraq and spend another century figuring out why every nation had advanced but us. Or we could give the people who are trying to do good a chance and change the way we look at things. salaam,
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2005 07:31 by almotanabi.
And here we go again, here's an idea of the kind of democrat who want to rule morocco, sorry for those who can't read arabic, but it's a letter of threat to moroccan leaders.
I agree with the fact that democraty is a slow process and that Casablanca, New York, Jeddah, Madrid, London, Vietnam, palestine, iraq, afganistan, chechenia are crimes and inhuman. but before we can go any further can please prouve what you have said below: >>"the democracy that nadia and her pals will give morocco is the same one Taliban gave Afghanistan" You are talking about extremly important stuff and you are comparing "al adl wa al ihssan" to taliban which is something that no sound humain being accept.
I personaly thing that the system that they would want to implement is one like the one in Iran, wich is fair, "democratic", accepts progress and inline with Islam, of course the system is not 100% but it's a lot better that our out of date monarchi.
It's time for parties to choose in Morocco: H2 had the same message Religion or politics! *YOU want religion: that's PERSONAL: Go practice however you want. No imposing it on others. *You want Politics: Keep religion out of it. Kepp Allah, Jesus, Moses...out of the political speech, because once done: that proves something is fishy.
With all due respect, I don't want to see Morocco turned into e.g IRAN, Algeria -no matter how fair their system might be.
*You: means one. the message is not addressed to any one in particular.
It's absurd, but it seems extremists are more worried persuading others how to worship, rather than themselves show GOD HOw they respect his creation.
It seems that some people are still confused in this forum.
ISLAM IS A DINE(way of life) NOT JUST A RELIGION, Islam is way of life, Islam is not just how we should do our prayers, and it governs each and every aspect of the Muslim’s life.
Islam gives guidance on how the Muslim state should be run, its foreign policy, its politics, its economy, its juridical system...
The Prophet Mohammad (SWS) himself and the Caliphs where not mere religious leaders, they were the best politicians the world has ever known.
The other thing is some people should stop burring their heads in the sand, it's only a matter of time before Morocco inchalah becomes a Muslim state, and Most of the Moroccans (I mean the BASE I am not talking about the aristocracy minority here) want to live according to Islam and don’t want a secular state.
Salam
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2005 10:56 by Arabi77.
I strongly oppose and pray that morocco will never become like Iran. And brother Arabi, you should know by now that I respect you and your opinion, but, my goodness, how much we look at things differently, and there’s nothing wrong with that. This is the first time you put you dream and aspiration for morocco in a clear way when you said: it's only a matter of time before Morocco inchalah becomes a Muslim state. Brother, I believe Morocco IS a Muslim state, and I believe while Iran advances are noticeable; it remains in my view very far from what one can call a democracy. It chocked me to read that it ‘s a replica of what you want to see in morocco.
All a long our forum, I could see your dislike of the king, his father and his personality, and we are all free to see in him what we want, I always saw that each time we mention Casablanca, New York, Jeddah, Madrid and London, you insisted on including Vietnam, Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan and Chechnya, as if to say, I’m not going to condemn the first list unless the second is condemned too, and to a certain degree, I can see your point. But when you replied about Nadia’s AL ADL WA AL IHSAAN and said: I personally thing that the system that they would want to implement is one like the one in Iran, which is fair, "democratic", accepts progress and inline with Islam, I just nearly hit the roof and prayed to Allah not to make that happen. Iran is Iran with it’s style and way of life and Morocco is a very different in my view, and I’ll take the minuscule democracy in Morocco today before I take any Iranian example for my beloved Morocco.
I join yani when he said: With all due respect, I don't want to see Morocco turned into e.g IRAN, Algeria -no matter how fair their system might be.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2005 01:59 by almotanabi.
Islam is indeed a great way of life . The time of the Prophet SWS is different from ours: Let's not confuse both. it's only dillusional if we thought so. I wish we did livethat way, but the prophet himself enouraged his followers: AL IJTIHAD: using their brains to distinguish between right and righteous, let alone dillusional. We are Human and bound to make mistakes, but not some that think of others as less worthy, or of their religions as non-exitent!
On another note; I didn't know that morocco was less Islamic a state or a non-Islamic one. Let's make sure It's not an extremist state and I'll pray for that.
You are right brother almotanabi, we certainly hold very diffrent opinions from each other, and each one of us thinks that his vision of Morocco is better than the other one's, but Allah alone knows what is realy good for our country and what is not. One thing I am sure of is our intensions are good and that a good start , it's by communicating and sharing ideas that one manages to a fair and democratic system. We talk a lot about democraty and we should be the fisrt ones to implement it by giving each one the right to express his own opinions his hopes and fears without putting presure on him.
I certainly respect your ideas evens if I dont agree with them and I will continue to do so, I am able also to see were you are coming from, but we have diffrent life experiences and diffrent system of values.
Lets be sure of one thing contry with a constitution dictated by the French is not a muslim state.
I just want to remind all of you. Until now, we do not know who is behind the bombing in London ? I wish we will khnow soon.
To Almot and to Arabi77, To the question: which political system is good for Morocco ? Nadia Yassine has her views and should be considred as the view of a single moroccan citizen. Almot has his view, Arabi77 has his own and probbaly millions of other citizens do have their views. It is just by debating the different ideas in a free and transparent way that the moroccan people can decide and choose under which system they want to live.
I personally believe that a system in which the citizens have the freedom to think, express their ideas, to believe or not in God, to practice a religion or not is the right one for progress. The country should adopt a constitution where people can use their intellect to tacle their daily life but by respecting the law and others. This constituion should be specific to the moroccan society, of course one can learn from others.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2005 03:19 by Krim.
Krim Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I just want to remind all of you. > Until now, we do not know who is behind the > bombing in London ? > I wish we will khnow soon. > > To Almot and to Arabi77, > > I personally believe that a system in which the > citizens have the freedom to think, express their > ideas, to believe or not in God, to practice a > religion or not is the right one for progress. > The country should adopt a constitution where > people can use their intellect to tacle their > daily life but by respecting the law and others. > This constituion should be specific to the > moroccan society, of course one can learn from > others.
> Exactly! > > > > Edited 2 times. Last edit at 07/11/05 03:19PM by > Krim.
I don't really believe in democracy as practiced NOW because it can give a minory of society the power of the majority. However, currently the Islamic system is being mis-used by a small minority who think and believe that they speak for the majority! What we need in Morocco is a compromise where ideas can be debated freely and without due pressure...
How can you debate if there are people who already think you’re Kaafir? But to be fair here, How can you if the other side thinks you are a terrorist because you simply belong to an Islamic group?
To have an Islamic state will prove to be hard if one wants to implement democracy us we know it today, and that in my view will be the big problem, as I don’t believe the idea that some of us promote, that democracy and religion could go hand in hand. Until we could separate between the two, I think a clash is evident. salaam,
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2005 08:56 by almotanabi.
Dear Almot It is through a real debate that ce can come to a good result. May be we will come to a separation as you stated. Do not forget, Amir Al Mouminin...........
, it's by communicating and sharing ideas that one manages to a fair and democratic system. 
chargement...
