Morocco # English board

Hi All,

It's one of those experiences I felt necessary to share with you all, beforing carrying on I would like to say that I have nothing against moroccan girls, on the contrary I am proud of them or at least some of them.

It's a beatiful saturday afternoon in Casablanca, sun is at the very middle of an amazingly blue sky, temperaure is warm, I was napping when I received a call from a colleague (a girl) she asked if I wanted to have a cup of coffee, I said Ok then I asked when, she Replied al Maarif. For those of you who don't know this is the quarter that attracts youngsters from all over town especially in saturdday, for the very simle reason that most trendy shop are located in the area and there are also some coffee shop. Though I hesitated for a bit I thought what the heck. So we met in a corner of a road, we wondered where to go and then we decided to walk through the main street in search for a quite café. so be it, only few yards away I was engaged in a mind consuming conversation when my eyes came across a girl, about 18 or 19 years old, standing in the sidewalk and just holding her "crouch" with bare two hands (putting both her hands against her private part) as an offence to another girl standing in the other side of the street, I was shocked, few seconds the girls who's being offended comes carelessly from the other side of the street to pick a fight with the girl, then the hitting and the cursing and spiting and you name it...

We tried to ferge the akward as we settled in café's terrace, i ordered a tea while my compagnian had a coffee, few minutes then three young girls, minding their business come close to the Coffee shop, stood in front for few minutes as if they were expecting someone to go out, when to the side of the street a,d started laughing, while a car pulls over and picks them up all in the break of day light, and before the eyes of all those sitting at the cafes table.

My afternoon wasn't over just yet, I was so disgusted that I wanted to go back home, but my friend wanted me stay on.
Right before I think: what now? something else will hit me right in the face, two girls in a cartrying o find a parking spot, as they make few turns across the block the spot a car leaving so they decided to go for it, but then there's a problem a car is already waiting for the spot before them, so as the parking car moves her way out the awaiting one pushed through, the two girls are frustrated because they claim the spot as theirs while the other car was already in and getting ready to leave, the person driving was a manabout mid 40s with two daughters, as he pulls away from the car, the girl sitting in the front seat pulls her window and spitts right in his face, gives him the finger and moves away. there was about two minutes where veryone stood silent. few moments back, the man still cleaning his face, a youg guy comes in with the license plate number.

Just when I thought the it's over, the best was yet to come. My friend asked me to go the Twin center to buy some stuff from the food store, I was waiting in line, when a bunch of girls (about 5) were carrying a trolley half full of alcohol. I was in a complete shock, I have never ever seen anything like this in my entire life, not even during the time I was in Canada, when girls party hard in the week end, never have I ever seen such a thing, nor have I ever thought I'd see this in Morocco. Well believe or not, it happened right in front of my eyes, and the eyes of all those present that day. The manager of the store has asked the girls for a private talk, we never know what happens next.

It was time for me to go home, I went out called for a cab and went home safe and sound god forbid.

I learned few lessons out of this, the first one is: As long as you're in the street, anything could happen, so you'd better watch out.

the second one, we're lcky to still have some nice educated intelligent young women who live among us, because otherwise we are wasted.

thank you guys for reading through.

Take care

i like to arabic

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Driss1
Hi All,

It's one of those experiences I felt necessary to share with you all, beforing carrying on I would like to say that I have nothing against moroccan girls, on the contrary I am proud of them or at least some of them.

It's a beatiful saturday afternoon in Casablanca, sun is at the very middle of an amazingly blue sky, temperaure is warm, I was napping when I received a call from a colleague (a girl) she asked if I wanted to have a cup of coffee, I said Ok then I asked when, she Replied al Maarif. For those of you who don't know this is the quarter that attracts youngsters from all over town especially in saturdday, for the very simle reason that most trendy shop are located in the area and there are also some coffee shop. Though I hesitated for a bit I thought what the heck. So we met in a corner of a road, we wondered where to go and then we decided to walk through the main street in search for a quite café. so be it, only few yards away I was engaged in a mind consuming conversation when my eyes came across a girl, about 18 or 19 years old, standing in the sidewalk and just holding her "crouch" with bare two hands (putting both her hands against her private part) as an offence to another girl standing in the other side of the street, I was shocked, few seconds the girls who's being offended comes carelessly from the other side of the street to pick a fight with the girl, then the hitting and the cursing and spiting and you name it...

We tried to ferge the akward as we settled in café's terrace, i ordered a tea while my compagnian had a coffee, few minutes then three young girls, minding their business come close to the Coffee shop, stood in front for few minutes as if they were expecting someone to go out, when to the side of the street a,d started laughing, while a car pulls over and picks them up all in the break of day light, and before the eyes of all those sitting at the cafes table.

My afternoon wasn't over just yet, I was so disgusted that I wanted to go back home, but my friend wanted me stay on.
Right before I think: what now? something else will hit me right in the face, two girls in a cartrying o find a parking spot, as they make few turns across the block the spot a car leaving so they decided to go for it, but then there's a problem a car is already waiting for the spot before them, so as the parking car moves her way out the awaiting one pushed through, the two girls are frustrated because they claim the spot as theirs while the other car was already in and getting ready to leave, the person driving was a manabout mid 40s with two daughters, as he pulls away from the car, the girl sitting in the front seat pulls her window and spitts right in his face, gives him the finger and moves away. there was about two minutes where veryone stood silent. few moments back, the man still cleaning his face, a youg guy comes in with the license plate number.

Just when I thought the it's over, the best was yet to come. My friend asked me to go the Twin center to buy some stuff from the food store, I was waiting in line, when a bunch of girls (about 5) were carrying a trolley half full of alcohol. I was in a complete shock, I have never ever seen anything like this in my entire life, not even during the time I was in Canada, when girls party hard in the week end, never have I ever seen such a thing, nor have I ever thought I'd see this in Morocco. Well believe or not, it happened right in front of my eyes, and the eyes of all those present that day. The manager of the store has asked the girls for a private talk, we never know what happens next.

It was time for me to go home, I went out called for a cab and went home safe and sound god forbid.

I learned few lessons out of this, the first one is: As long as you're in the street, anything could happen, so you'd better watch out.

the second one, we're lcky to still have some nice educated intelligent young women who live among us, because otherwise we are wasted.

thank you guys for reading through.

Take care

that's marocK, all the girls u talking about are likely to come from the same social category of "casablanca bourgoisie" and likely to have been to the same schools in casa (no need to name them)

I don't know why some people respond by provoking and picking on others ( no need to name them) .

Brother Driss ,

I also feel sorry for the situation in maarif in casablanca. I grew up there and I know exactly how it is . Girls walking half naked waiting for cars to pick them up, or waiting for their boyfriends( while they are still in middle schoole or high school). and those cafe full of teens smoking etc...
Their education hadn't been built with religious principles and modesty.
A good muslim knows how to respect others(elders), how to dress modestly and how to fear God.

All we can do is ask Allah to guide them toward the right path.

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marocain_fier

that's marocK, all the girls u talking about are likely to come from the same social category of "casablanca bourgoisie" and likely to have been to the same schools in casa (no need to name them)

The girls you're talking about, my friend, have chauffeurs to pick them from school to home, you think they hang around in the streets or fight like dogs on the sidewalk ? They stay among themselves in the clubs or in their villas. You have no idea what you're talking about, unless Driss can tell us that what he saw was bnat Lyautey.

I mostly understood that these are bnate zenka (spiting on people with their kids)

well If you think they're bnate zen9a, you might meet one of them in a mariage, and you'd swear she is THE Bent Darhoum, I am afraid there is no way you can tell. all you can do is hope

Anyways the situation has worsened and it's becoming a concern for anyone, I am only afrain this gets out of control and triggers some disastrous reactions from the angry (I am recalling the 16th May events) allah yehfed.

Whats even worse is that whenever you ask a guy who's single and not yet engaged in a relationship for his opinion about girls, he would tell you the exact same things as every other guy (They are all prostituting one way or another).

Here's one of my favourite phrases that reflects some of that situation:

girls behave like the duck, smooth and unraffled on the surface, but paddle like the devil underneath.

Peace be upon you all.

I think this is freedom gone mad !
Our people Girls & Boys are not taking in this freedom very well & what we hear is the top of the iceberg

u'r right Driss1,

I knew one that was about to be mine hopefully circumstances did not wanted us to gather.

As you say : we have to believe in Hope and legacy, Ceteris Paribus

Hi everyone,

same thing could happen with guys…..many “bnat nass” met really very bad guys…liar….violent… alcohol addicted….drugs …ect…. in the popular areas of Casa you see boys teenagers with piercing dancing RAP everywhere wearing Nike & Puma stuff you ask yourself how do they get the money if their family can’t cope with the food ? ….. it’s not a matter of gender….. it’s much more an educational issue particularly with the transformations occurring in the Moroccan society…..as for singles looking for soul mate …well it’s depending on the vision of everyone ….if a person (man or women) is positive that will affects the partner and certainly the whole relationship……

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chelhman

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marocain_fier

that's marocK, all the girls u talking about are likely to come from the same social category of "casablanca bourgoisie" and likely to have been to the same schools in casa (no need to name them)

The girls you're talking about, my friend, have chauffeurs to pick them from school to home, you think they hang around in the streets or fight like dogs on the sidewalk ? They stay among themselves in the clubs or in their villas. You have no idea what you're talking about, unless Driss can tell us that what he saw was bnat Lyautey.

chelhman,

I stop u immediatly mate, I know what I talk about and know casa enough if not better than u, neither the girls I allude to neither the girls u allude to call for the chauffeur when they hang out between girls and look for fun, thought I was more talking about the girls pushing the trolley full of alcohool

Instead of lamenting the situation with the Moroccan girls, why the Moroccan MEN are always trying to through the blame on the females? Why this so much insecurity? Why don’t we ( I say we because I am a married male) ask the right question of what makes them behave in such a way? Why the situation is so bad with all the ethics of the Moroccan society, not only sex-related or behavior related things, but also the socio-economic, the educational and the political situation. It all comes together. The Moroccan nation is drifting away from its great spiritual and historical roots and by now they are neither real Muslims, no real Europeans. The moral reference of the nation is a mixture of everything and nothing at the same time.

Let us not be stupidly patriarchal and continue pressing the wound to bleed more and more. Moroccan society, man and woman together, is a stage of fools who act aimlessly. The Moroccan men are looking for “Bent darhoum” as some of you put it and yet they allow themselves to F**k around. Why all this hypocrisy of wishing to get a “Bent dahroum” while allowing themselves to abuse the females of others. These females are the sisters, mothers and daughters of somebody else.

The ethics of a whole nation are going down the drain. The problem is that prostitution, homosexuality and even zoophily are not new things in the Moroccan society. They did not come with the coming of the Europeans, the TV dishes, the immigrants, etc. They were there side by side with Islam and side by side with the greatness of the “mourabit dynasty” and its achievements. But they were never paid much attention. It is easy logic, if you want something to grow big, bring it to the center of the social stage and give it much “undeserved attention”. The evidence for the existence of prostitution, homosexuality and even zoophily in the Moroccan society since centuries ago comes from many well researched studies. A colleague from the University of Meknes came out with a great anthropological and historical study documenting and analyzing the sexual culture in Morocco. One of the funny texts, dated back to the 15th century describes the diaries of a doctor, who had to cure a farmer from an infection in his penis. In treating the infected penis of that farmer the doctor describes that while pressing the swallown penis of that farmer, a grain of wheat came out of his penis (I will not tell you how that wheat grain got into that place…zoophilie!). A cursory stylistic analysis of the “Andalusian mouashahat” can reveal intimate sexual connotations between males, etc. etc. Yet, during that same period and before the Moroccans were ruling from The north of Spain south to Senegal. Great scientific and philosophical achievements were realized. Take the case of Ibn Rochd, case of Ibn Khaldoun and the case of Ibn sinna, to cite but few. Some of the brightest current theories in mathematical logic and in complex cognition and philosophy of mind have their roots in the scientific works of these great people…I remember my embarrassment some seven years ago when a colleague from Edinburgh university asked me about the effects of Alkindi on the theories of derived generativism. At that time, though being a specialist in this line of reasoning, it did never occur to me that it started all in the southern neighborhood.

Why these parallelisms? Well this is just to illustrate the idea that the fact of witnessing the great degradation in the mental, the ethical, economical aspects of our nation has nothing to do with the interaction with the west…we simply need to make a brief stop as Moroccans, look to ourselves and say “let’s be the change that one wishes to see”. The first place to start is oneself, the family, the neighborhood and then the rest will follow. Of course always taking into consideration that all this can be started safely only and only if we respect our women, unselfishly love them, collaborate with them and share the same visions towards the future. The worst enemy is within and is fueled by denial, blaming the others and unnecessarily defending the patriarchal attitudes. These patriarchal attitudes of ours already got us lot of troubles and delays…

For great readings about how to come to terms with one’ s origins as a patriarchal male and the necessity of pushing things forward by respecting and collaborating with the females of our society, one can read: (i) the works of Fatima Mernissi and (ii) the recent works of Mechbal…

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marocain_fier

chelhman,
I stop u immediatly mate, I know what I talk about and know casa enough if not better than u, neither the girls I allude to neither the girls u allude to call for the chauffeur when they hang out between girls and look for fun, thought I was more talking about the girls pushing the trolley full of alcohool

Oh no ! you said : "that's marocK, all the girls u talking about are likely to come from the same social category of "casablanca bourgoisie""
You were not talking about regular girls. As for knowing, Casa better than me, I doubt it, I went to high school there, left after my baccalaureat. I know Maarif like the back of my hand, the area Driss was mentionning.

I recognize the "all" u mentionned was not in its place, but as I said I was alluding to the girls with the trolley, moreover a big part of the girls who frequents the trendy places in maarif comes from the category i speak about, this is just truth.

Speaking of same subject, telquel casablanca newspaper is writting about same subject we r taking about .....dont be surprise lot of journalists now get their subjects or ideas from forums ...Any way here is what telquel is going to talk about(((Prostitution, violence, drogue, abus d'alcool… la nuit casablancaise vit tout avec excès. Notre “brigade des mœurs” n'a rien, cependant, d'un gardien du temple moral inflexible. Elle tolère l'alcool tant qu'il ne tourne pas au vinaigre, est quasi-impuissante face au trafic de drogue et traque les prostituées surtout quand elles deviennent trop visibles. Nous avons accompagné une brigade deux nuits durant, en estafette. Accrochez-vous ! )))) this article will be published tomorow July 28, on telquel website [www.telquel]-

hy , maybe nodody uses anymore this forum ; i found this by mistake , and i did laugh a lot , beacuse it s really interesting what u are saying ; anyway , about morocco girls , i met some of them , there are studying medicine in this country where i am right now ... so i went out with omw of them , really crazy girls , i guess that they are doing all the things that they are not allowed to have in morocco beacause of the religion and everything ; they drink a lot they party a lot , ok they are sociable and everythig at the beggining , but BUT... after we get to knoe them , u realize they act like gypsies I swear;
and they all say one stupid thing :"they can not fall in love with a guy if he is nor morocco boy..............

stupid girls really , the girls how have both parents marocanians are really different from the girls , let s say , who's mother is frech or father
i met one girls , her mother was french , her father marocanian , she is ok , relaxed and chill everything , the normal morocco girls are crazy , the fight a lot between them and also with the boys , tunisiesn , etc...


ok enough , watch out if u are from europe for morocco girls...

Sbs,

Thanks you so much for this analysis, it's refreshing to hear a Moroccan man giving this kind of point of you, as a proud Moroccan woman I am used to hear the blames all the time, they consider Moroccan women are the same prostitute they meet on the street, it's disgusting and shows that Moroccan lost his credibility and he is more and more insecure, and I am sick and tired of hearing these blames on Moroccan women as if we are the only evils in this society, as you said definitely man has contributed in a way or another to lead women to act this way. I know my family my neighbors, my friends aren't prostitute or drunkard, I know them as people of ethics, hard workers, and proud. So it's high time for you Moroccan men to start making a difference otherwise you will be all wasted as Driss said.

Thanks

i think it is in our culture , to be schyzos and blame women for everything:

first of all we start by saying : women are the cause that adam left the paradise
women are made from a bent rib (dl3a ouja) based on these believes what chance women have to be treated in a fair and equal way?none of course because these ideas are tattoed in our society and from here start our racism and negative vision towards women
let s be realistic as one of the comments above wisely stated :
a society is made from men and women , reading the amount of subjects and blame addressed to women make me think that the moroccan society just made from women no trace ofr men

yes yes yes and 1000 yeses there are moroccan prostitues , i defy anyone to come up with a country where this doesn t exist so why you expect that morocco will be a protitution free?
for some may be it will a surprise to discover that moroccan society is made from men and women oh yeah ther are men too and they do make their presence felt
if we look at the subject from a different side let s see the crimes that we men have committed and committing and we are the sole responsible :
- drug dealers are men
-corrupted politicians since 1961 are men
- terrorists are men
- rapists are men,(paedos are men )
- women slavery is practiced by men
- in a divorce men usually re marry and move on with their lives but the majority of women never abandon their children

i am not a saint and neither you but the core of the problem that we moroccan we become professionals in the culture of blaming specially picking on the weak or the minority , gossiping and accusing is our national sport
wouldn t it be wonderful if everyone of us start with himself , criticize himself and better his behaviour .



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2009 12:50 by faisal28.

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amINnewyork
Sbs,

Thanks you so much for this analysis, it's refreshing to hear a Moroccan man giving this kind of point of you, as a proud Moroccan woman I am used to hear the blames all the time, they consider Moroccan women are the same prostitute they meet on the street, it's disgusting and shows that Moroccan lost his credibility and he is more and more insecure, and I am sick and tired of hearing these blames on Moroccan women as if we are the only evils in this society, as you said definitely man has contributed in a way or another to lead women to act this way. I know my family my neighbors, my friends aren't prostitute or drunkard, I know them as people of ethics, hard workers, and proud. So it's high time for you Moroccan men to start making a difference otherwise you will be all wasted as Driss said.

Thanks

first of all , i am not from morocco , it s a nice country , next year i will do to casabanca

it is really bad that the women in morocco are not treated well by the men( that s what i have been reading lately... in all kind of books , and documentaries...)
tey should be treated equal as us , men , and also with a lot of respect and love , i thik that s why more and more women are starting to leave morocco to study in other countries and after finishing the university they decide to leave their life there because they are treated better than in home country...
it s my opinion..

I have spent most of my childhood there. El Maarif was and still is one of the best areas in Casablanca.
Shame you are adopting an attitude to generalise that all girls from there are benat zankha. I will disagree with you about this because I have family still living around that area.
Casablanca is a big city like yourself you travelled all the way to el Maarif to go to a café; others did the same thing and came to Casablanca all the way from lafk9ih ben saleh and other areas.

I condemn bad behaviour and especially in the vicinity of children. However I loved it when you said a girl rang you up asking you out for a coffee.
It’s very nice to know that you didn’t think anything else of that “I became sceptical at the start of your post”.
Morocco is developing very fast some changes are for better and others are for worse. The influence of the West, TV and media are speeding the changes.
No matter what, it is our origin and our roots are there.
Those girls who got picked up need sexual education to not catch any kind of diseases or get pregnant.
Those girls you called bad, in their eyes perhaps they were cool and having fun “kaye k9achbo” they are still children. We should blame the parents.

In Summery, we know that our nation needs education and we can’t have it both ways too; a Westernised developed country and conservative Middle Eastern one.
Hope my views didn’t offend anyone.
Regards

I COMPLETELY DISAGREE WITH THE COMMENTS THAT MOROCCAN MEN DO NOT TREAT WOMEN AS THERE EQUAL AND DISRESPECT THEM. MY HUSBAND IS FROM CASA AND HE IS THE MOST WONDERFUL MAN IVE EVER MET IN MY LIFE. WHEN I AM IN HIS COMPANY I FEEL LIKE A MOST BEAUTIFUL PRINCESS BECAUSE THAT IS HOW HE TREATS ME. WE HAVE BEEN TOGETHER OVER 3 YEARS AND NOT ONCE HAS HE EVER RAISED HIS VOICE TO ME OR CURSED ME OR DISRESPECTED ME IN ANY WAY, EVEN THOUGH I HAVE GIVING HIM MANY OPPOTUNITY AS I HAVE A TERRIBLE TEMPER AND HAVE REGRETABLE CURSED AND YELLED AT HIM. I COULD NEVER IMAGINE BEING WITH A MORE WONDERFUL MAN. MAYBE I JUST GOT LUCKY BUT I CANT IMAGINE THAT HE IS THE ONLY MAN IN MOROCCO LIKE THIS. I DONT BELEIVE IT IS RIGHT TO PUT ALL THE MEN OR THE WOMEN IN THE SAME CATOGORY. JUST MY OPINION.............

Yah we can see that you do shout form the capital letters you are using.
What did you feed him? Are you sure he is from Casa?
The last casawi he never shouted at his wife he never did anything to hurt her, she was pain in the back side she kept on pushing and pushing… the Bloke was like the ice. One day she committed suicide when they were on holiday in one of the Canary Islands. She jumped out from a 13 stories building. He never touch her but they fund his hands full of her hair. he claimed he tried to catch her and she slipped out of his hand the Spanish police released him free when everyone in the hotel witnessed on what a mad cow she was.
This a true story the bloke sold their house in west London as too many bad memories with her. Now he lives in Casablanca he opened a bar in El Maarif.

well ive been living overseas for almost 7 years, and i go to morocco every 2 years im from tanger and ive never seen things like that.
Its Annoying. Those girls have no dignity or self respect. They are going to look back on it and say, "what was I thinking?!" Because someone, somewhere, will have the DVD forever.

all I hear is more whining and whining. I have to say Moroccans are the best at it.

I don't condone what the girls are doing in these specific situations obviously, but for every bad thing you see there are many good things going on that we choose to ignore. You will always have good apples and bad apples.

It surprising that what I took from the story is not the attitude and the behavior of the girls, instead the culture of tbrgig and people watching from coffee shops. If there is anything that threatens our society the most is this culture and the general laziness of the public. Instead of wasting time in a coffee shop and whining about everything that's going on, why not take that time and do something productive. Obviously, I am not saying don't go to coffee places anymore, but when I do go myself, I am certain that I wont be noticing as many things as you did.

Finally, it is sexist to assume that women are changing in our society, everybody changes overtime no matter their gender, race or age.

Yes but may i add that here in the West the problem has affected the very roots of our society. The pendulum will swing the other way soon, but but all polarisation and extremes are bad and very negative for everyone. I personally think that we need God in our midst in all places, without God in our hearts we have nothing. It´s very sad because I was thinking of leaving the West to come and live in your country, to escape from exactly this type of behaviour, lack of manners, decency and values, but this makes me wonder. Of course on the other hand its wonderful to see you young people expressing your distaste for this kind of thing, so there is hope yet.

This now in reply to hadawahedsiyed, may I opine that your remarks about sexism are in themselves sexist. Precisely this kind of behaviour is wrong in anyone, however given the nature of Islamic and Moroccan society , surely everyone should seek to respect their own particular role in the given society. If females wish to seek emancipation in your Islamic society, I would consider that this is hardly the way of going about it, and neither is your condoning it. thanks