I’ve been in Italy for holiday and I’ve also studied with Italian people for long time....generally speaking Italians could be very good friends, are warm and they enjoy the life very much...good food....nice clothes and a lot of parties and socialising, I found them sometimes not really hard worker (compare to German, English people or even to North Italians)...pretty lad back... in my opinion they’re are proud....sometimes so proud that they think they could be the best people in the world....towards Moroccan people some of theme are quiet racists....if I were offered a job in Italy? I will not accept it.... in the next 30 years the future and the good life will be in the migration countries : Australia, Canada and the USA....
Georgina , i hope things are well with your & your Moroccan partner & that you are supporting him during Ramadane !
I visted italy few times & the first impressions is that like in all Med contries Italians appear to be very harm & social .
As you know they are more Italians outside the contry than in it! but Italians in general are not tolerant tawards immigrants mainly the Moroccans & i also noticed a lot of tenson between the North & the south .
i'am not here to generalise but this is what i noticed during my visits ,i also was told that the Italians authorities were helping couples with new born babies finnancially this was a good idea but i was chocked to find out the assisstance was only offered to Italians .
Italians like any other nation will benifit a lot from integration rather than segregation .
Italians outside Italy were more open minded , so one hopes with time everyone will be able to overcome their prejedices & integrate . Italy have a large elderly population to overcome this Italy needs immigrants as much as the immigrants need Italy .
Please do not take this in the wrong way as it is my personnel constatation & i am aware that its not applicable to all Italians .
Ciao! Mmmmhhh.... well very interesting actually. And thank you for having chosen my country for your holidays!
Agree totally on the difference between north and south! And i prefer thesouth even is things are a bit disorganised quite often! i would leave Italy as i did already in the past only for another european country, any, but must be europe,
Ilhem2 in the country you have mentioned you can only survive as they allow us, darker skin people or with oriental names only to swim.... not to fly.
Pourtoi: regarding the holy Ramadan, i've cooked harira yesterday, definitely not like his mother, but not bad at all!
And definitely, yes there are a lot of elderly person here, but now with Turkey entering europe that they said has an extremely high percentage of young persons, we should get a little more even!
I´ve lived in Italy for 1 and 1/2 year, and the last 15 years I´ve there almost every second year. I love Italian food, and Italian humour. And I´m not afraid of living in Italy. But I can´t say if I would say yes or no to a job, cause it depends on the job and a lot of other things. If I should refuse a job in Italy, it wouldn´t be because of I don´t want to live there, but more because I can get better offeres somewhere else.
Ramadan Moubarak to all
cali
Usually, terrible things that are done with the excuse that progress requires them are not really progress at all, but just terrible things.
Russell Baker
I am actually working with Italians and they are very lovely poeple. But when they talk about moroccans living in Italy, they are racist. Saying all bad things about them. Well some how I understand them. I have been in Italy and I saw how some moroccans are living there, I can't even discribe, these poeple are a shame for morocans everywhere. My collegs tell me when they see me: " voi compra"
What's the job offer Ragassa! Hi Georgina and all;
I have an Italian Friend/colleague and some of our small talks involve the tensions between North and south in Italy as well as in the States...it's the same story as in every country. As to How I see Italy, Well it's a country that has a lot to offer, if you're a tourist,but as a resident, that depends on the kind of skills/ job you hold and the quality of ppl...I am not that fond of the food, I do love the olives and cheese(s)! If I am offered a Job in Italy, Would I take it? Depends if it's better than what I have and there should be other social incentives! I do think that it's up to the immigrant to like or dislike his/her host country but, it's definitely their responsibility to respect the culture...and demand and impose respect in return.
Georgina a écrit: ------------------------------------------------------- > .... > Ilhem2 in the country you have mentioned you can > only survive as they allow us, darker skin people > or with oriental names only to swim.... not to > fly. >....
Georgina it’s exactly the opposite....in the European countries including Italy migrants can even hardly swim....but in the countries I mentioned everyone has the chance and the most important thing is that everyone has the same chance...because in fact everyone is migrant....and the law is very strict about any kind of harassment or discrimination...it’s simply in the mentality of the people to accept the difference between persons... you are valued with your skills not with your name or your skin colour....I lived in Europe more than 13 years and I’m living in one of the countries I mentioned...I even can’t compare...
dear Ilhem2, first i'm glad that you are leading a fulfilled life in one of the country you mentioned b4, i had working exp. in the US several times, i appreciated also the fact that you were b4 in Europe so you can definitely judge! I think it was just the impression i had plus when i went i jus had in my mind the fact that i would have never stayed, i love the good & old Europe!
Ciao Amadou! We meet here too!
You know it is so challenging when you are told impressions on your country by outside... Right now italians are not ready yet for this big immigrations that we recently experienced, but more than racist, the average italian is "scemo" (stupid!) ignorant, doesnt know the "other" and deeply he wants to know him/her but is scared. We will need another good ten years to be able to open up more!
Together with albanians and romanians, moroccans are the biggest immigrations group in Italy, and yes they were called Vù Cumpra? means "wanna buy?" since they use to sell lighters, paper tissues, small gadgets and so on and they say this so...
Yani ciao ragazzo!!!
Cali you are almost half italian! And you have lived in my beloved Roma=Amor!
I know that the moroccans that live here are quite happy.
May you all have a pleasant 3rd day of Holy Ramadan
Another thing that i believe is extremely important: in italy everybody is entitled to have FREE hospital treatment and medical cares, also sans papiers!!! They will not be notified to police.
Differently from other countries where you have to pay even to calm a rotten tooth. Not mentioning the U.S.
Hi Georgina & well done for having a go @ making Harira ,i 'am sure he appreciated it
Turkey accessing the EU is a good thing ,but as you know this is a big issue & will take a long time .
The french have to say yes !!! ( we all know they will say Non)
Plus we talking 10 years or more & on the top i do not see a big befinit for Italy, in my view integrating the Romanians ,Albanians & North africans well in the Italian society will be more benificial.
I'am all hope that in 10 years the Italians would open up more & the immigrants 2nd & 3rd generations will take over & help the integration process.
Regarding Turkey i know it will be a slow process but in my opinion necessary. To be honest with you i feel that Turkey will bring a new breeze to "granny Europe"!
Yr quote: "I'am all hope that in 10 years the Italians would open up more & the immigrants 2nd & 3rd generations will take over & help the integration process" That is my wish too.
Georgina a écrit: ------------------------------------------------------- > Good morning! > > dear Ilhem2, > first i'm glad that you are leading a fulfilled > life in one of the country you mentioned b4, i had > working exp. in the US several times, i > appreciated also the fact that you were b4 in > Europe so you can definitely judge! I think it was > just the impression i had plus when i went i jus > had in my mind the fact that i would have never > stayed, i love the good & old Europe! >
Dear Georgina
thank you for your nice feelings........
I agree with you that Europe has got an old history...a lot of historical monuments , traditions and costumes.....but those countries I mentioned before have space ....peace and fascinating virgin nature ....for migrants lots of opportunities ....particularly for their children they remain the best countries to live in.....in my opinion.....Europe has got so much problems (political, economical, social...ect) that it's not attractive anymore as 30 years ago......
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2005 04:12 by Ilhem2.
...Shift of Power is one steering factor that makes or could make a place; let's say, Italy or CEE as a whole, turn into a magnet for immirgants!!! Would Europe be in need of more labor force to sustain it's powerful state? As of now, I humbly believe the US is the leader in that department!!! Immigrants are, somewhat needed, if they are Leagal, and even if they are not, Latinos would be a good example out West! they stand for Cheap non-stop-service providers!They bring balanceto a crippled economy in need of muscle ppl and if they happen to be educated, the more the better.
China and Japan have their own, even though Japan will be suffering in a couple of decades in that department! The birth rate is really Low and more Immigrants will be lured via different means otherwise, the Green light will be given to step up and speed up the birth rate in Japan !
To go back to Italy as a nice place or not...Moroccans or others are only attracted, interested in a place that offers something better and that would welcome the new comer and treat them with degnity! From different readings of News and News makers, the Immigration issue is always presented as phenomenal Task and the immediacy for a solution , pun intended, is Immediate!
Having said that, Immigrants who are, as of now and in the eyes of the immigrants themselves more so than the peudo relectant host countries, ARE A PROBLEM: Moroccans in Spain, France, Italy....see themselves as a Burden and they try to leagalize their situation and try to Fit in and lead a nice peaceful life...In reality they are a Solution but aren't portrayed as such. The Poor coutries Hold the Key to the Balance of Pwers in the Super world, but the need for a beter life is a wall that blinds all the immigrants because the focus is more on the " I need" rather than " I am a difference maker"
To sum up my Blabla: Sooner or later, Migration will be encouraged, it's already the case in the US, but it's somewhat disguised under what is generally Known as THE LOTTERY...And Italy is Still a great place to visit...as a future resident in another country, I'd like Moroccans and other to have the mind set of" I have something: Skills.." what does that country offer me in return..." Some self- confidence and self-estime would take Moroccans and other immmigrants Farther!
I have been to Italy for a holliday twice, nice country nice people, i do believe that italian feel jalous when they meet high educated Moroccan cause they used to Uneducated ones. Georgina don´t try to deffend italian. People are different,you have the good and bad ones, we have in Morocco people that does trait other moroccan and foreigner bad, just because they are not from the same class.
i have a feeling u are happy lady with her maroccan man, witch i like and wish u guys happines, cause that what is matter in the end.
for ilham2... u said the future is in Usa, canada and Australia. in USA they have to search u up and down to get in. when u are a muslim they look at you very bad and you tell us.yu have same right come on. be reel ...
I live in denmark where we have few foreigner and believe me, if there is any better future for any moroccan out there ... is in Morocco with very BIG "M" who tell u other ways must be a dreamer..
> > for ilham2... u said the future is in Usa, canada > and Australia. in USA they have to search u up and > down to get in. when u are a muslim they look at > you very bad and you tell us.yu have same right > come on. be reel ... > > I live in denmark where we have few foreigner and > believe me, if there is any better future for any > moroccan out there ... is in Morocco with very BIG > "M" who tell u other ways must be a dreamer.. > > Ramadan mobarek for you all. > aziz_dk
have you lived in those countries I mentioned before?.....
nobody tells me anything....I've done my own experiences .......
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/13/2005 01:49 by Ilhem2.
Thank you for wishing me happiness with Fattah, although right now we are having a lot of problems....
As i stated before i agree completely with u on the Us Canada and Australia situation.
I was in denmark and other scandinavian countries for holiday. you guys pay an incredibly high amount of taxes but the quality of life is great with out any doubt. One of my brother lives in the Netherlands where he opened up an italian restaurant and pizzeria and he lives good.
ILhem2.. I have been in USA and Canada, canada is ok.. USA is hard to live in... i knew people that have 2 works just ta pay the bills.. I don´t know much about Australia. I just know is a big difference between living in a country and/or visiting. they are countries where people can be nice to you when you are tourist but as soon as you moved in and start looking for a work, you are not welcome anymore.
Georgina..
I hope your problems will be solved very soon .. there is no mariage or relationship with out problems. sometime problems make relation stronger.. About taxes in denmark,I guess, is the highiest in the world. i have a computer company sometime i fell like packing and moving to an other country.. i pay 54 % that is a lot it means like the state make more money than me... from my work. hehehehe but in the other hand they are ways to recover some of it ... so is not that bad in the end of the day.
best to you all bodies ..
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2005 02:00 by aziz_dk.
that's what I'm traying to explain....as long as you don't live in a country you can't judge it......as a tourist you can't experience the real life in it......in other words you've got to be envolved in the society to be able to see the difference between Europe and those countries I mentioned before.....as I said I lived in both of them...and again...in my opinion if a Moroccan immagrant wants to live in denity and to ensure better life for the children Europe is not the best place any more.....some of the Europeans may not like what I'm saying but that's fact and the reality....we can't ignore it.....I've got Moroccan friends born und grown up in Europe and still suffer from racism...disremination and lack on recognation....that's a shame...the worse is very thing wrong happens immagrants are the first persons to blame for.....what's nice life and beutiful futur.....while Moroccans in immagration countries within 4 to 6 years don't have any problem to feel good in those countries.....this is the difference.....I could say nice things about Europe to make people happy.....but I prefer to tell things honnestly......because only in this way we can change something ........
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2005 07:03 by Ilhem2.
you are right about Europe.. but USA still not a better place for Muslim. Black american, Lationo, Italian and arabs.... do have right to complain but still are discriminated against.
There are so many blacks Americain in jail just because they are black, dont tellme in USA they don´t judge you by the colour of your skine.
may be you are somewhere where you don´t fell it. but i know so many black american moving to denmark cause they fell back home they are not accepted.
i may be wrong but I still say, if is there any better place for Moroccans, is Morocco.
I am very happy for you, that your community accepted you, now where you are, i may guess is USA.
I have felling that you compare America with France or Belgium. europe is bigger than that. and I am not saying Danmerk is better either.. hehehe. i know like 90% of Moroccan living abroad, not that happy where they are. is just make the living !!!
I agree that in the USA the Afroamericains still have got problems but this because they don't do anything to change it....the govenement gives them so many help...more than the Americains from European background...but most of them don't want take advantge of it.....those who take this chance are doctors...professors at the University...managers...ect... and respected exactly like the Americains from other background....however this is an other issue.....regarding Moroccan...there is no comparaison with Latinos or Afroamericain....as Moroccan if you're hard worker and honnest you can ashieve what you never could if you were in Europe.....simply because in Australia, Canada and partly the USA...everyone has the same chance....this is impossible in Europe nowadays of all economical & political problems....you just need to folow how many times the law is cahnging to desadvantges of the immagrant.....and make your on conclusion...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2005 07:35 by Ilhem2.
Europe too is opening the door for immegrant, but of course the one with hight education... nobody want a fool.
believe me you can achieve a lot in Europe too. but still american step on Blackamerican, they have to do twicethe work a white american does, to be taken serious.
you said your selv that blacks are not the working kind. but they are white that doesn´t give damm either.
"les quan y on a partout" doesn´t have to be black or white!!
where do u live in USA?
aziz
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2005 08:01 by aziz_dk.
I just don't want to discuss the Afroamericain issue because I'm not concerned at the moment......let's talk about the main point : the moroccan immagrants....."Europe is openning the door for the high educated immagrants"...if Europe can not cope with the immagrants born & grow up in its countries how it would be possible to manage the new comer? I'm so wandering....
but anyway ...statement against statment....every one has to know the right place to live in...I believe Europe is not the good one and I'll never advise it to any of my friends or family menmbers if they ask me...it's not a healthy socity for the immagrants.... we'll see in 20 or 30 years....
regarding what you said : Morocco is the best place to live in ..if it's so we won't be somewhere else.....but this is an other topic ........
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2005 08:27 by Ilhem2.
Yes is true Danmark, Germany need so bad It people, they are importing people from India and Pakistan.. I have a cousin that got a contract to Germany, I need my self software devlopper. is hard to find...
Moroccan in europe, the one born here ...i am so sorry!! but they are not trying to improve them selv.
They have to start taking education, before asking for work. cause any job right now need an education even cleaning!! so our kids need to face the facts!!! take an education before thinking of looking for a job.
they are moroccan doing well in sport in holland and belgium, so people who has skills will get there regardlesss .
aziz_dk
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2005 08:42 by aziz_dk.
CIAO ! Sono italiana, I thank all the people who have been to Italy and liked it, italians love evrybody ( except the Northern italians don't like the Southern italians ) I think there's similarity in all people who live around the Mediterranean..I mean body language , warmth and some traditions are shared. I would love to meet a moroccan man I feel they are sexy, smart and polite. Can you ask for anything more ? And that cute french-arabic accent does not take away from their charm....
gabri a écrit: ------------------------------------------------------- > CIAO ! Sono italiana, I thank all the people who > have been to Italy and liked it, italians love > evrybody ( except the Northern italians don't like > the Southern italians ) I think there's similarity > in all people who live around the Mediterranean..I > mean body language , warmth and some traditions > are shared. > I would love to meet a moroccan man I feel they > are sexy, smart and polite. > Can you ask for anything more ? And that cute > french-arabic accent does not > take away from their charm.... > > Tant qu'il ya la vie...il ya de l'espoir...Gabri
Hopefully not all north italians hate meridionali, exept from few cowards. But that problem exists also in other countries.
A comment about Ilhem2 and his view of american job market...Its true some people here have 2-3 jobs to make it financially ...but of course it depends on what skills you have and education...If you can find a great job, which pays well , you don't need to get anyother job...n'est pas ?
chargement...
