Morocco # English board

Yani,
my grandparents let's say from my father's side (I can even include my father) spoke and wrote Spanish, but can't understand a word of written Arabic. I can also consider myself a bit illeterate when it comes to Arabic... I have many difficulties to read if there is no "chakl" the vowels and stuff. A of the moroccan darija becoming a language... it would be interesting to see that! the times I went to Marrackesh, and Casablanca, and Rabat, people found it funny my accent form the north! nothing against that, it was a difference that aroused interest from both parties (well, I'm taking about more than 20 years ago!) So someone has ever seen the books in amazigh?

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Neoifriqia
This is an interesting read. First and foremost, I am not a berber. I just want to make that clear. I am African though. This is what I hear from the arabs who come from the Middle East. They say that Moroccans don't even speak arabic. I found that to be quite interesting and sometimes shocking, since most moroccans I have met in the US say they are arabs. I even had a friend whose Mom is Shlah insist he was arab. He was quickly "shot" down by a saudi who rejected him as such.

In serious academia, most scholars agree that the Amazigh character is what makes morocco and north africa for that matter, so different from the rest of the "arab world". Most agree that derija is not arabic at all. The Amazigh people do have a tremendous histroy... not written in berber of course, but in Latin and greek. It is one of the most ignored histories on the african continent. I have some articles if anyone is interested. I hope I don't piss anyone off.

I am interested in the articles you have on the subject! thanks in advance.
Your point is well taken and it is with a great sense of pride that I/we celebrate the Amazigh heritage, no question about that!

As to Darija "not being arabic at all", that's a bit pushing it, since the root of most words stem from arabic. It, Darija, however is a mix of arabic, classical and Modern and an invasion of foreign/ borrowed words, which gave birth to a different form the root of which is Arabic.
I agree it's the most Distorted version of all spoken forms of Arabic and that makes it unique in a sense and not necessarily "Non-Arabic".
Thanks for the articles again.
Yani

Riffman;
...A of the moroccan darija becoming a language... it would be interesting to see that! the times I went to Marrackesh, and Casablanca, and Rabat, people found it funny my accent form the north! nothing against that, it was a difference that aroused interest from both parties (well, I'm taking about more than 20 years ago!) So someone has ever seen the books in amazigh?

Indeed it is interesting and The other question is that darija with its intriguing varities presents a problem! Just as you put it, the accents, which I find fascinating, plus the slang makes it difficult to settle on a "standard" darija that every body willing to adopt! I have a peice that I'm finishing on the situation of darija...and I'd like to focus later on the case of Berber...Just wish i had moretime and patience

THe books; I haven't been to morocco, but I have some friends in the field and I will inquire on you and my behalf.
Thanks for making this interesting

Dear Forumists,
The Amazigh issue should not be viewed as an attemt to our unity as Moroccans. Mr Alkhateeb has written a very nice book on the mosaic society of Morocco. However, when Amazighs raise their voice a bit louder, they just want recognition for their culture, and a rewriting of the history of North Africa. The purpose of this demand is to further enrich our Moroccan culture and to give it a sense of diversity within unity. Morocca has always been an open society and throughout history, it has succeeded in assimilating different cultures. When Muslims invaded the country, Amazighs were not ignorant sheperds (as one of the forumists said), but a nation governed by a brilliant woman. Arabs exploited the riches of the country extansively, and every year loads of these riches were sent to Baghdad and Damascus, together with the most beautiful Amazigh women as gifts to the rulers in Sharq. These are the hidden facts about the history of Morocco!!
I think the most frightening danger for Moroccans is not the issue of Amazighia, but the real threat comes from fundamentalisme. Morocco is now experiencing a wave of Wahhabism and Zarqaouisme, which will make Morocco, if they succeed, another copy of Iraq and Afghanistan. If it happens, Islamists will say it's an Americano-Zioniste plot!!!!

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tidili63
Dear Forumists,
The Amazigh issue should not be viewed as an attemt to our unity as Moroccans. Mr Alkhateeb has written a very nice book on the mosaic society of Morocco. However, when Amazighs raise their voice a bit louder, they just want recognition for their culture, and a rewriting of the history of North Africa. The purpose of this demand is to further enrich our Moroccan culture and to give it a sense of diversity within unity. Morocca has always been an open society and throughout history, it has succeeded in assimilating different cultures. When Muslims invaded the country, Amazighs were not ignorant sheperds (as one of the forumists said), but a nation governed by a brilliant woman. Arabs exploited the riches of the country extansively, and every year loads of these riches were sent to Baghdad and Damascus, together with the most beautiful Amazigh women as gifts to the rulers in Sharq. These are the hidden facts about the history of Morocco!!
I think the most frightening danger for Moroccans is not the issue of Amazighia, but the real threat comes from fundamentalisme. Morocco is now experiencing a wave of Wahhabism and Zarqaouisme, which will make Morocco, if they succeed, another copy of Iraq and Afghanistan. If it happens, Islamists will say it's an Americano-Zioniste plot!!!!

You are right only one part dear tidili!!!
Don't be mistaken, the arabistos-islamistos-fundamentalists are the two faces of the SAME coin!

Kouider

Hey Guys,
Just back from leblad and already a good debate? I love it..
sheers,

Hi Almot, really nice to have you back. Jump in, the water is still warm.

Yani,

As I am new to this site and to forums in general, how do I post a link to a website. There is one paper that I have but it is quite lengthy. It is short but very interesting and in my opinion, perhaps the most objective article about the history and origin of africans in the north.

Thanks

Neoifriqia, just copy/paste the link.

Chelhman,

Here is the site. I think it is an interesting read. Hope you enjoy. I think more important than the paper itself, is his sources.

www.historycooperative.org/journals/jwh/14.4/smith.html

Chau

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Neoifriqia
Chelhman,

Here is the site. I think it is an interesting read. Hope you enjoy. I think more important than the paper itself, is his sources.

www.historycooperative.org/journals/jwh/14.4/smith.html

Chau

Thank you Neo. Will check it out and exchange few Qs and As.

Hi all,

Why is this so difficult to have a calm discussion about this matter ?
The main thing to say about this is :
Amazigh people just want to be recognized
To keep their culture
Certainly not to creat a country in the country ...

Respect and accept the differences would help us (all) to grow up

C.u

I’m still afraid of touching this one, I'll wait until I see someone with same or comparable view on this as I’m, because then at least we’ll be two to receive the trashing and beating, not only myself,,,yes, chicken!!!lol

Cheers,

Hi Almot,

No please, jump in, we need diversity, I'm biased on this because of my background but I'm reasonable enough to adhere to other views. Besides, don't worry, I have your back if somebody starts trashing you

Hi all,
After reading this article and all comments , it seems that the tremendous problem that Amazighs face is the lack of systematic , logical and scientific study of Amazigh issues especially , the issue of language. Thus, I created page in Facebook recently. This page is entitled Amazigh Association of Linguistics. The aim of this page is create an atmosphere which will allow Amazigh researchers or those who are interested in Amazigh language to cooperate and help each other to achieve this state of “scientifcity” and logicality of research. The first step is to see what is the State of Art of Amazigh language and researches on it.



Thanks for joining us!!!