Hi my dear freinds, We are trying to buye a house yet the main issue is the Intests, what I mean by that is it's haram in islam to deal with interests. And as you might know in the US, especially in San Francisco, that the house rate is outrageous and you can't pay with Liquid...Any suggestions we tried to check with some supposedly legitimate Islamic Banks yet what they offer is not very convaincing in terms of what our Islamic law states....
While I will not tell you to put aside your religious belief and go buy your house, I will tell you that’s what we did. There are times in life where something just doesn’t make any sense, and to me, that was one time. Banks give you money and in return you pay them. I will not discus the haram fact here, but I will never let that stop me from buying a home for my children, let any imam out there come and give me a solution and I will follow it, I say, if you can find someone who can give you that kind of money with no interest, then go for it and tell them Jaazaahoum Allah koula khayr, but, sister, if you can’t, I say, go buy your house and Allah knows what’s in your heart. We live in a different country, and even if you live in Morocco, it will be the same. This is just my opinion,
But as interest payments are going to be up in the next bush's term, buying a house for the following years is not the best investment, and houses can probably decline in value.
"Hé ! bonjour, Monsieur du Corbeau.
Que vous êtes joli ! que vous me semblez beau !
Sans mentir, si votre ramage
Se rapporte à votre plumage,
Vous êtes le Phénix des hôtes de ces bois."
U.S. Real Estate Booms Grow Two - Thirds By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: May 3, 2005
Filed at 9:47 a.m. ET
WASHINGTON (AP) -- The number of areas across the United States with real estate booms grew nearly two-thirds last year to 55, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. said, warning that these booms may be followed by busts.
The boom areas represent 15 percent of the 362 metropolitan areas the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight analyzes, the highest proportion of boom markets in 30 years of price data and more than twice the peak of the late-1980s booms.
Boom areas were defined as having inflation-adjusted prices at the end of 2004 that were up 30 percent or more in three years.
Adding recent data and analysis to a study released in February, FDIC economists Cynthia Angell and Norman Williams repeated their view that credit market conditions may make current housing market booms different than past ones, which have tended to taper off rather than bust.
''To the extent that credit conditions are driving home price trends, the implication would be that a reversal in mortgage market conditions -- where interest rates rise and lenders tighten their standards -- could contribute to the end of the housing boom,'' they say.
The FDIC economists found that only 17 percent of local U.S. housing booms in the 1978-1998 period ended in busts, defined as a 15 percent or greater drop in nominal home prices over five years.
But their updated study, released Monday, also notes special qualities of the current boom, including the large number of boom markets across the country and a risky credit environment.
While the previous FDIC study on the subject in February emphasized local market factors for historical boom and bust cycles, recent past experience signals possibly broader ranging causes.
''The notable expansion in the number of boom markets in 2004 suggests that national factors could be helping to drive home prices higher,'' the updated study says. ''If national factors are coming more into play, then clearly the most important factors to look to would be the availability, price and terms of mortgage credit.''
Among special risks the FDIC has found in the current credit market are increasingly leveraged new home purchases, more use of adjustable rate mortgages, growth of interest-only mortgage payment plans and accelerating growth in subprime mortgage lending.
The study also cited more purchases of homes strictly for investment as a sign of increased speculation in the market last year.
"Hé ! bonjour, Monsieur du Corbeau.
Que vous êtes joli ! que vous me semblez beau !
Sans mentir, si votre ramage
Se rapporte à votre plumage,
Vous êtes le Phénix des hôtes de ces bois."
Hello l9bi7, We have to remember also that in the US housing history, or at least since the Regan era, this is the lowest and the most affordable time to own your house. People bought house in the eighties with interest rates so high no one can believe it today, 12% was the norm. and so if you buy a house today at between 5 and 8%, you should consider yourself lucky. Many specialists in the market warns of a collapse in the housing market, but they also have been saying that for years.. Cheers,
I agree with what you said, but with the prices of oil, the stock market down and the prices going up, there is a risk of inflation .
Ok, all this told, FDIC is trying to push people to save money and to limit their purchasing power specially after raising interest rates ...
This is for me a risk, and everyone deals with risk at their own way.. but still a risk is a risk, and you rather have some hedging against it
If the house is for "personal" "emotional" matters go along with it ! if it is for investment purposes, back to 5 years ago it would have been very wise, but now, personally i am not in.
There is a saying :if it is good now, it must be late to be in
cheers
"Hé ! bonjour, Monsieur du Corbeau.
Que vous êtes joli ! que vous me semblez beau !
Sans mentir, si votre ramage
Se rapporte à votre plumage,
Vous êtes le Phénix des hôtes de ces bois."
Thanks to both of you but almotanabi, I 'm afraid that in the housing Histrory of the bay area, this is the most expenssive or I would say the most outrageous and expenssive period. we will never be able to pay 1/2M or 1M for a 4bedroom House in cash.....and I think in Islam it was stated clearly that Interests are haram and that's it....
Remember, that in my first message, I started by saying that I will not tell you or anyone ever to do anything about your religious belief and decisions, and I ended my replay with the phrase (this is just my opinion.)
And so, ARRIBAA Is haram in Islam even thought Muslim scholars differ always in explaining what is and what is not Rebaa. I’m so unqualified to give a good religious solution to a problem such as this one, but in my life, I really live by the saying that ADDINO YOSR, or i go by what really make a sense. And so, sister, I really hope that you can find an Islamic Bank that will give you the money for your project, I really pray that you can do it that way. Salaam,
So do not buy house and live in a tent that should be made only by Muslim’s hands on a land that is still virgin because all the houses in USA were build by no Muslims and they were drinking beer there every end of the day. So I think that you are living now in a house build by an non Muslim American or may be by a Muslim with some special hobbies, you know what I mean.
Ok it is ridiculous what I am writing here but your question with my deep respect is also including some of this Muslim modern virtue (ridiculousness). I say Muslim hen? Not Islam. Because being Muslim does not mean that you are by definition that expected universal Muslim that God has sent a prophet to explain it but it did not work until today.
Sorry again but I just ca not stop my angriness when I read such questions and answers after 15 century of expected illumination in the human history.
I have just one question for you, aren’t you able to think by yourself? Because nobody can do it better than yourself unless you are mentally handicapped and then I will advise you to go to look for a Doc.
Sunny Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Hi my dear freinds, We are trying to buye a house > yet the main issue is the Intests, what I mean by > that is it's haram in islam to deal with > interests. And as you might know in the US, > especially in San Francisco, that the house rate > is outrageous and you can't pay with Liquid...Any > suggestions we tried to check with some supposedly > legitimate Islamic Banks yet what they offer is > not very convaincing in terms of what our Islamic > law states.... > > Thank you for your inputs!!!
Brother Sunny have you tryed islamic finance? I think that there are some sharia complients financial loans provided in the US and the UK.
I suggest that you try these first and see what they sujest.
If "any interest is HArram", then we're floating in on Harram!!! The system is all based on Interest and for reasons imposed by Laws that has nothing to do with religion!!! I Know ppl who own stocks they say are Hallal and advise against non-hallal ones!!! I'm sorry but that makes no sense ;TO ME, Because the whole premise is based on interest!!! you put money in the bank ( to save it) but somehow, someway you are either gaining interest or paying interest! You're using a Credit card and the boiling point is interest, whether you pay your balance in full or not! We are Living in a System that is based on Financial Interest, we might not like it, it might not conform to some very restricted norms of ISlam, but that doesn't mean It's BAD/ Harram and we have store ..After all it's not like SUnny is borrowimg money to make more money, and even if she were, more power to her!
THere's nothing wrong with securing a place for ones family and there's nothing wrong with paying Banks if they are willing to help you: THis is another kind of TIJARAH!!! the premise of which is interest!!! and the prophet (SAW) was a businessman who managed his wife's money and made her money! I am no Imam but, I know that if we follow the Saying "...Harram, period", we better pack and go back to the desert and start anew...
Hello Yani, I know this may not sound good to some of my friends here, but I agree with you 100%, only in my replies I try not to infringe on any ones believe, and so I stop short of saying, common guys, we live in Europe or America… I really like your reply. Take care,
I think the terms of civility apply to us all and I try my best to abide by those terms...calling things as they are, in my view, does not break the rules of civility; instead it should make better virtual friends. Good reading you.
You know what I mean, I’m sure, when I say that I stop sometimes short of saying what I really want to say. From the moment where someone puts his or her religious belief in front of crucial decisions they’re about to make, then any comment, unless one agrees with their view could be interpreted in a wrong way, and could even be seen if it happen to be very far from their views as a view of a MOLHID, someone who has no regards for religion. That’s how I saw this post.
But let me tell you what I really think and believe in the case of buying a house in countries that do not have Islamic banking systems: I believe, and I know I’m walking on hot lava here, that if an imam or Alim comes to me when I was about to buy my house and told me that it’s haram, that I simply would’ve said to him to go to ??? . and that because of one simple reason, and that is I do not think that Allah SWT or our prophet SAWS would’ve want me to keep my children in the street or as you said under a tent. This is one area where a Muslim have no choice and where Allah knows what’s in ones heart. Salaam and take care,
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2005 02:24 by almotanabi.
I agree with you , as you have said I will never make fun of any one who decides to stick to his religious believes and give them first priority.
If some one's faith in Allah is strong than maybe Allah soubhanah will solve his problem in a way that he does not have to use an interest based system.
People are different some of us can wait until they have a good deposit and wont have to pay a lot of interest, others have access to Islamic banking, others have friends and family who can help them, others need to by a house in a matter of urgency and they have no choice other that using banks with interest…
I think that when talking about religious issues we have to be very careful because what might suit me or you may not be a good idea for another person.
Brother Arabi, Assalaamo Alayk, And you’re right, No one can disagree that Allah is big and that he, and only he can decide what will take place, but where as Islam should be a religion of peace and easiness, we tend many times to make it so hard and so rigid that one can sometime wonder, wa aoudo billahi min haada al kaoul, if Islam is really a religion where we suppose to be happy at all. In so many (hadeets) from the prophet SAWS, one can see that he always decided in ways that make Islam look so comfortable and easy, as example when he favored a working man over the one who doesn’t work at all but prayed all the time. And many other decisions like this…you know what I’m talking about. But today, unfortunately, I must say, we see many who preach Islam, preach only a very rigid and stiff way of this great religion, why is it that all we hear from these new preachers is don’t do, don’t eat, don’t sell, don’t buy, don’t look, don’t don’t don’t… I believe ones again, and I’m no scholar, that Allah will not punish a Muslim living in England or the USA if they bought a house for their children and paid the bank for it’s services, it’s a very basic comment sense, the rich Koffar in the middle east can, if they were really true Muslims put large amount of money all over the world for Muslims to buy houses if they want to, and if they really are Muslims, you know, and I know that they can, but we also know that they wont, because their money is what makes the banks overseas we borrow from with interest work. The likelihood of me, you or another person borrowing money from any bank in the world today that does not have Saudi or Kuwaiti capital is very slim, my brother. Nonetheless, if one can find an Islamic bank to borrow the money from, may Allah yobarik lahoum. But to say that I just never buy a house for my kids unless I find someone to give the money with no interest, to me look like that Muslim who prayed all the time and did not work and the other who was may be late to salaate but worked for his family, While these decisions are personal and should be respected, it’s ones again that rigidity that worries me in the today’s Islam. Islam is a religion to love, not to be afraid of. Take care brother; I always enjoy your writing
Dear All, Since Ibn Ruschd and others, we "muslims" still have serious problems in asking and thinking about very important and challenging questions. Are we forced to live with a fixed knowledge and do not need to think logically in order to solve our problems. Do we need to beat our kids to force them pray because a hadith say so in case other means fail to convince the kids ?
Do we not need to buy a house because interests are haram ?
Do we need to marry more womem because a hadith allow that ?
Thinking logically never means to allow what allah has forbiden nor to forbid what allah soubhanah has allowed.
If someone decides not to follow our prophet's recommandations in matters of dounya or deen, that's tottaly up to him and will be judged for that in front of his creator.
Allah soubhanah says:
[4.63] These are they of whom Allah knows what is in their hearts; therefore turn aside from them and admonish them, and speak to them effectual words concerning themselves. [4.64] And We did not send any apostle but that he should be obeyed by Allah's permission; and had they, when they were unjust to themselves, come to you and asked forgiveness of Allah and the Apostle had (also) asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Oft-returning (to mercy), Merciful. [4.65] But no! by your Lord! they do not believe (in reality) until they make you a judge of that which has become a matter of disagreement among them, and then do not find any straitness in their hearts as to what you have decided and submit with entire submission.
[33.36] And it behoves not a believing man and a believing woman that they should have any choice in their matter when Allah and His Apostle have decided a matter; and whoever disobeys Allah and His Apostle, he surely strays off a manifest straying.
The biggest fallacy that a human being can make in His life is to be ignorant of the 'purpose' of his/her existence. The purpose of life can be comprehended only by making use of our most important faculty: 'the intellect', and by reflecting on the relationship of the human with the universe he/she lives in. The Qurán (divine revelation to Muhammad) thus not only upheld, but also encouraged keen observation and investigation of the micro & macro systems in the universe to be convinced of the truth of God's message: Islam.
from the sa me site In the modern context it is important, for Islamic thought at least, to reassert itself clearly and define its parameters upon which a modern Islamic epistemology can be built. The work of European and American philosophers cannot be ignored, and their criticism should be used to recreate the vigor of Islamic philosophy which has been lost over the past few centuries.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/2005 09:08 by Krim.
chargement...
