Hamas is out, what does it mean really?

Morocco # English board

14 November 2006 10:06

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baba123
Can you please tell me why in 1948 Jewish chose Palestine as there a promise land and not the other countries that were presented with?

I've been having this argument for a while now, it's always the same logic. It's a jewish colonial issue for Israel but for Palestinians it's not a muslim issue. It's territorial, unless Palestine is a holy land. I'm muslim just as you are, I was never told to turn to Palestine when praying.
Arafat never made it a religious issue, he was a secular, he prayed in churches just as he prayed in mosques. Rewind the tapes, when he turned for help to his neighbours, it was as Arabs not as muslims, it's an arab issue, christian Arabs and muslim Arabs alike.
Hamas has changed everything, they're basing their actions on islam, read their charter.
But like I said, what shocks you is that it has been obvious to you because it has been repeted for so long and used as a sales pitch that he became truth.
Again, like Noam Chomsky (oops ! a jew) always says, "Don't believe me, the archives are out there, see for yourself"

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Did I say you can¡¦t criticize Hamass or any other group? All I said is you are hammering anything called Islam or Muslims. I notice that you have new friend siding with you on this issue ¡§ your beloved friend isrealnumber1¡¨, congratulations you are wining some good Israeli hearts, you proved me wrong on that ƒº

isrealnumber1 is as israeli as I am chinese, come on ! He is just here to provoke, my feeling is that he's one of us, except he's probably wearing a beard and has a mark on his forehead. How stupid do you think I am ?
As for criticism, I am exercizing my right as a muslim to question those who use our faith as a political flag. Something we should all be doing, instead of picking on the very few of us who dare do it.

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still disagree with you it is related to religion , just to make you happy it is no Islam issue it is Jewish issue , otherwise why all the Jews are moving there and take lands from the Palestinians "settlements, ring the bell"
Who said Islam is off limit, this just tell me you are not well knowledgeable or well informed about your religion ¡§if it is your religion¡¨ Islam always welcome constructive criticism but must addressed to the true scholars and not the phony ones ¡¨paid by GOV ¡§ or to less educated about Islam the people you must see on TV shouting .
How much do you know about Islam?
FYI, I know very little about it so I¡¦m not claiming to know all about Islam.

That's the beauty of our religion, we have no clergy, each and every one of us has a right to step up.
Like I just said it's a jewish issue for Israel, it's not for Palestinians, it's an arab issue.
Show me how is it related to islam ?
Jerusalem is not a valid argument because it concerns all three faiths, Christians aren't pouring in with military support.

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Can you tell me what did Moroccans had to fight with against a ferocious and very sophisticated army at the time when the brought the French to there knees, and left as quickly as they could.
You keep talking about negotiating, the rules of negotiation is either you have something to offer in return and the other party need it and can¡¦t live with out or you have to show your enemy that you have a force and the will to use. otherwise your on the submissive position, ¡§take orders and shut up¡

You're read me on this forum for a while now, do I sound to you as submissive ? I'm realistic, comparing a popular uprising with rogue insane tactics that have isolated the Palestinians further is just being stubborn. Force is obviously not an option.
Ok let's say I'm an idiot, what's your view ? What should they be doing to have something to offer ?

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Yep I see your way of talking and thinking, the exact word I hear any time I turn my TV to Fox news. All you need is a David flag waving on the corner of your post.

Like I said, in your binary state of mind, if I'm not a cheerleader then I must be one of them. Anything and everything not to shake your beliefs. That's the difference between us, when it comes to these matters, I have no beliefs, I need to know. So I research and reason, I don't filter knowledge to validate my opinion. Challenge yours, read things that make your blood boil, that's how you advance otherwise it's just endoctrination.

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If Arabs/Muslims countries keep there promises, you think they would still say oh nooooo, we like to blow our self.
Haven't seen you accusing Israel for anything, I think in your way of think last week massacres was caused by hammas or maybe the enfant them selves.

Comb this forum, read my posts, see if I don't expose Israel's actions every chance I get. You don't know me, do your homework before you sentence someone.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2006 12:46 by chelhman.

riffman

14 November 2006 11:20

Quote "Can you tell me what did Moroccans had to fight with against a ferocious and very sophisticated army at the time when the brought the French to there knees, and left as quickly as they could." where did this part of history come from? never happened in Morocco, at least not the French (that's in Algeria). If you are referring to Morocco then it is the Spanish. There was only one war in Morocco, and it was the RIf War. Morocco never fought the french, the algerians did, as did the Libyans against the Italians. Moroccans (i.e the government) has always been ass-kissing the french. So, Let's not re-invent our history.

baba123

14 November 2006 11:50

riffman

where did this part of history come from? never happened in Morocco, at least not the French (that's in Algeria). If you are referring to Morocco then it is the Spanish. There was only one war in Morocco, and it was the RIf War. Morocco never fought the french, the algerians did, as did the Libyans against the Italians. Moroccans (i.e the government) has always been ass-kissing the french. So, Let's not re-invent our history.

You call your self rifman and you don't even know the history of your region.
Correct there was some low life’s that all they want is a seat in the Gov.
You should come 15 years earlier and tell that to my grandfather and see what you will get from him. (Slap in the face). He lost 2 brothers and was wounded, in the ouad sbou.
Do some more reading

riffman

14 November 2006 12:04

OK, I do some reading as soon you provide me with the name of the books. fair enough?

baba123

14 November 2006 14:28

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riffman
OK, I do some reading as soon you provide me with the name of the books. fair enough?

You know we are the least book readers and by that we sentenced every real local intellectual to poverty, so most of them decided not to write about anything and left that to the west to say anything about us, twist our history as they please, and mold some weak peoples to there won needs and unleash them on the rest of the population calling them selves “intellectuals or moderate.”
[darwin.baruch.cuny.edu]
[www.bookrags.com]
Watch how they called the resistance “terrorists”
I'm sure If you look little more you will find some useful articals about is.

riffman

14 November 2006 15:16

Baba,
Thanx for the links. Yes, when you resist to the oppressor you are labeled terrorist, if you are moslem that's double the ransom!
I know of the story of Allal al Fassi. But he was part of the resistance against the French, as many were, and died proud of trying to fight the french, no doubt about that. But it was not considered a proper war, being a war against the french. That's why morocco is considered one of the few countries to reach independence without a getting to a real "war".
As for the fact of the west writing the history for us, no doubt about it. Unfortunately, our country instead of encouraging people to learn so we could write our own history, it just sits there! reaching for money in their pockets. As a result we are amongst the most illeterate countries worldwide.
cheers.

baba123

15 November 2006 01:03

Quote
chelhman

I've been having this argument for a while now, it's always the same logic. It's a jewish colonial issue for Israel but for Palestinians it's not a muslim issue. It's territorial, unless Palestine is a holy land. I'm muslim just as you are, I was never told to turn to Palestine when praying.

So what is "oula l9eblatayan and thalytha lharamain"? Must be your house

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2006 01:04 by baba123.

sarah70

15 November 2006 02:09

salam alaykum

baba123

Quote
So what is "oula l9eblatayan and thalytha lharamain"? Must be your house

thank you for the pose ,you make realy laught Clap

i want to tell you that chelhman has an allergy against anything related to islam,he would like to use islam only when he is debating muslim issue he knows he will not be welcomed if he did not present himself as a muslim who cares about his "brother with beards and sign at the forehead' lol evil

when he is calling for reform and we are those fanatics who refer to the Koran without reading other scriptures and want rewind our life back 1400 years .
thank you for the smile

chelhman

15 November 2006 12:19

baba123, you know exactly what I meant but since kat dkhoul ou tkhrouj fel hadra :

[www.nuitdorient.com]

chelhman

15 November 2006 12:20

sarah70, glad I made you laugh, you did the same for me earlier smiling smiley

sarah70

15 November 2006 13:18

salam alayum

this is for your a waldi chelhman

i am helping you here to learn more about your religion

[www.jerusalemites.org]

chelhman

15 November 2006 13:53

Thank you Sarah70 for the link, I peroused it.
So, that's why you think we should all go down there and square things out with the Israelis ?

In the meantime, think about this :

How much does arab politics weigh in this issue compared to the excuse of religion ?
Again, why aren't Christians, among the most powerful nations in this world, intervening militarily then, if this is religious ?
Al Qods/Jerusalem is important to all three faiths right ? So ?
Speaking of faiths, where is Indonesia, where is Malaysia in this ? They're also muslims last time I checked and Indonesia is the biggest muslim country in the world.

Note : Don't confuse "arab" and "muslim" when you process your answers, it'll be less confusing to reach a conclusion smiling smiley

sarah70

15 November 2006 15:59

salam alaykum

waldi chelhman

Quote
How much does arab politics weigh in this issue compared to the excuse of religion ?

Palestine is a headache for them if they have anyway to let the whole nation think that is only a
territorial issue NOT religion one they will go for it.so your point or what u mean is out of plate.

Quote
Again, why aren't Christians, among the most powerful nations in this world, intervening militarily then, if this is religious ?

they did once or u never heard about the 1 crusade and how Salaheddine liberated the city and made it a peaceful place for all people from the 3 faiths .

Quote
Speaking of faiths, where is Indonesia, where is Malaysia in this ? They're also muslims last time I checked and Indonesia is the biggest muslim country in the world.

that is all muslims concern regardless where they are but the thing here i strongly believe we are in wick position (i am really aware ofour actual potentials ) to ask for our rights as u know people follow and listen to the stronger .here i give priority to rebuild ourselves established a developed nation (meanwhile keep claiming our rights we don t like people forget about it ) how to reach that here our viewpoints diverge you embracing the idea the priority is build a strong nation regardless of the price which could be disfigure our islamic identity mine is to rebuild a strong nation (yes i don t deny it required we roll up oursleves for serious work ) without loosing my identity not only that ,my religion will be my inspiration since we all agree that islam is great (no superiority here just talking about fact).how it is inspiring that is a long Sermon a waldi when u r ready to hear it just let me.

chelhman

15 November 2006 16:46

Lalla Sarah70 smiling smiley

I really do not want to sound disparaging but I have a hard time understanding what you write. I hope you won't take offence.
I'll try to answer what I understood.

On Palestine : I'm not trying to convince you, I'm giving you facts and an analysis deriving from those facts, whether you agree or not, the facts won't change.

On Christians : I'm talking about the current days not medieval times. If the religiosity of this conflict was its base than Christians would show their teeth to Israel. Given of course the fact, that the only remote thing that could relate this to Islam is Al Qods.

On your last paragragh : you're sidestepping the question, if this was a muslim issue, then the largest muslim country in the world would show some sort of interest. My analysis is that it is an arab issue, Arabs being christians and muslims alike.
Arafat never made it a jihad in the sense that Islam was under attack, it was a people deprived of its right to have a home.

Please prove me wrong with facts, possibly in the vicinity of the 20th/21st century. smiling smiley

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2006 08:03 by chelhman.

sarah70

15 November 2006 18:31

Salam alaykum

Quote
How much does arab politics weigh in this issue compared to the excuse of religion ?

let me rephrase my sentences

Palestine is a headache for them ( arab leaders) if they have a way to let the whole nation think that is only a territorial issue NOT a religion one, they will embrace it.so your point is out of plate.

chelhman

15 November 2006 19:01

Sarah70, have you heard of the "No Fact Zone" of Stephen Colbert ? smiling smiley

sarah70

15 November 2006 19:09

salam alaykum

chelhman

get to the point what do u want to say ?don't tell me what that or other thinks .

ah yeah my argument has no fact beside history .

sarah70

15 November 2006 20:33

salam alaykum

baba123

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wow yabiladi is sponsored by Israeli’s visa, now I know why all the blaming and poiting of fingers to hamas is coming from.

I don like to sound skeptical but this morning there were many ads in Yabiladi site (just underneath the last posting where it is Current page) I just could understand .

baba123

15 November 2006 21:57

here is an other one, (Jewish Art from Israel) it is posted rghit on this topic
HUMMMMMMMMMMM, Interesting

sarah70

15 November 2006 22:09

salam alaykum

baba123

i just could not undestand why specialy on this topic .none of other topic cares those Ads.

baba123

15 November 2006 23:03

Shelhmane might have an answerer for us, as he always have sleeping

chelhman

15 November 2006 23:49

About the ads you mean ? It has nothing to do with Yabiladi, it's Google Analytics, it displays ads in relation with words on the screen, if we were talking about cars, you would see ads about carmakers...etc

Must you see a jewish conspiracy everywhere ? smiling smiley

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2006 11:51 by chelhman.

Ilhem2

16 November 2006 00:13

Hi all,

Quote
Israelnumber1
......
For the last 50 years we tried to be civilized but obviously it didn’t work, so now the policy is, they kill one we kill ~50 they bark at use we injure ~20 and so on a so forth by the end of the century we will bring them to there knees.
A questions, have anyone seen us killing any Christians? they don’t bother us we don’t bother them.
Shalom

It’s a shame what you’re saying after all what happened to your people in Hitler’s time you are doing the same again to the Palestinians….but the human being is and still stupid …never learn from their mistakes….just give someone the power and you will see his/her real face….. however killing each other is certainly not the solution no matter how many….until your people understand that only with peaceful means the problem can be solved Israilies will not exist as well....

As for the Christians you don’t kill them because they are already died ….mentally I mean…you’ve taken their houses and properties and let them choose between Israel if they want to stay in the country where they are borne and grow up or Palestine so they will be condemned to leave…of course they’ve chosen your side…..but this is an other story.....

baba123

16 November 2006 01:42

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chelhman
About the ads you mean ? It has nothing to do with Yabiladi, it's Google Analytics, it displays ads in relation with words on the screen, if we were talking about cars, you would see ads about carmakers...etc

Must you see a jewish conspiracy everywhere ?

You are adamant about defending there cause with everything you got, I command you for that. Clap

Listen, I have been in the sate for over 20 years and watched and listened to almost all media here, and there is no subject I mean not even one that they missed, they always flood the phones and make sure to be the majority callers.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2006 01:43 by baba123.

baba123

16 November 2006 02:02

Quote
chelhman
baba123, you know exactly what I meant but since kat dkhoul ou tkhrouj fel hadra :

[www.nuitdorient.com]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, I can see all the research you doing,

chelhman

16 November 2006 03:35

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baba123
You are adamant about defending there cause with everything you got, I command you for that. clap
Listen, I have been in the sate for over 20 years and watched and listened to almost all media here, and there is no subject I mean not even one that they missed, they always flood the phones and make sure to be the majority callers.

You think I'm making this up ?
It's based on page content, are you that paranoïd ?
Can anyone reading this please confirm to this gentleman how Google Analytics works ?
There's no jewish conspiracy here Baba123. Try opening a page on another website with, let's say, lasagnas, you'll have ads on italian restaurants. Go ahead.

baba123

16 November 2006 11:36

I'm not questioning the fact it is related to the opened paged.
I'm just amazed how you are ready defend Israel and what ever related to it,

chelhman

16 November 2006 11:43

baba123, show me please exactly where you saw me defend Israel ?

Please post sentence by sentence where you saw me side with Israel ?

baba123

16 November 2006 13:59

Let switch roles here, you show me where and when and how many times you harshly criticize Israel and you favorite religion , and how many time you defended muslims or any of there cause?
Take of the Islam mask chelhman , show your face , be honest with people on who you are and what is you exact purpose in here. No no

chelhman

16 November 2006 14:02

baba123,

I don't have to prove anything to you or anybody else.
But I already told you, browse this part of the forum and see for yourself, the posts are there, I can't cheat on the dates.

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