Morocco # English board

sarah70
Shelhman know nothing about Islam , I bet you if he hear the athan he run a way and close his ears, but when he hear rap music he relax and think he is in haven .
Ask him when the last time he listens to the Koran again I bet you he doesn't have a copy in his house. Maybe the old and new testaments yes so he can show to his french friends that he is civilized and open minded



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2006 05:59 by baba123.

salam alaykum

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what's make you think you're better than me or more fervent ?

from where u get that i am not arrogant and only Allah will let us know at the hereafter once we submit our reports on what we did spend our life on.

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From your writings, self-criticism equates blasphemy, that's what is keeping us glued to the ground

as i said constructive self-criticism is most welcomed it is a necessity to move on but blaspheming and isolating the faith will lead into extremism (ghloe fe addine)when people feel that their faith is threaten from inside believe me they will go far to protect it so your philosophy only consequence is pushing people to more hatred and to the extrem.

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baba123
State you facts about hammas, and I’ll respond when I get the chance. Don’t drag your feet on me.

I did more than once, read this post, I've articulated my views with facts and a chronology of Hamas' involvement on this conflict.
What I haven't heard from you yet is, a thorough analysis on what Hamas brought in terms of improvements for the Palestinians.
Read this post carefully, see for yourself.

Sarah70, let's then leave this to history, we'll see if Islam will advance by shutting ourselves from anything remotely disagreeable to our ears or by questioning and reasoning like I think we should.

Hamas is the subject here by the way.

Baba123,

You're right, I haven't said anything remotely factual or sensible, I'm a moron, I can't reason, everyone knows this on this forum.
You, on the other hand, are the pride of this forum, I keep coming to this forum just to read your thorough analysis.


Other than that, have you re-read this post ?
Well I did, and I still can't find anything you said that bears any ressemblance to an analysis based on facts.

If I missed something, repeat your facts on Hamas and its accomplishments, please bear with me, I'm an idiot, I'm incredibly stupid.
I'm salivating with anticipation at what you're about to write, or is it drewling because I'm retarded ?
I can't really tell you see

I'm not here to insult you or any one else, but I got to know you more and more, you are used to people letting you get a way with writing a bunch of BS and calling them Facts and analysis, now that you are confronted with the real facts ,you can’t take it. Get use to it brother.
Sherry picker :



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2006 02:07 by baba123.

Baba123,

For the 10th time, I've given you facts and a chronology, read this post.
Let me give you the headlines if you're too lazy to re-read this post :
Hamas and the Israeli hawks killed Oslo, their actions fed one another's desire for more violence, each of them has a different agenda but the end result is an unnatural alliance between them.
Hamas used islam as a rallying cry and given the ratio of Palestinians deaths in the morbid repetitive scenario of "suicide bombing/retaliation", had no regard for Palestinians lives.

Arafat for me was a great man, he was a secular and seldom used tactics that unecessarily endangered his people.


Now, I'm leaving till sunday evening, use this time to bypass your autistic vision of the world and give us your analysis. You have plenty of time Einstein.

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chelhman
For the 10th time, I've given you facts and a chronology, read this post.
Let me give you the headlines if you're too lazy to re-read this post :
Hamas and the Israeli hawks killed Oslo, their actions fed one another's desire for more violence, each of them has a different agenda but the end result is an unnatural alliance between them.

---

You talk about hamas and Israel as if they were created at the same time under the same conditions.
if so, you just haven’t gotten it.
Here it is.

1 ) Hamas was a late natural birth of the occupation (1987), it is the right to any occupied nation to fight back .the act is protected by international law, and it’s agenda is to drive out the occupation. Yasser Arafat used hamas,jihad, fath and others powers as a stick in his negotiations with Israelis, and that is why he was respected and loved by all parties. as I said before you can never negotiate if you are in a weak position.
The agenda of your beloved Israel is to drive Palestinians out of the west bank and gaza and replace them with Jews from other countries. most of them know nothing about Judaism but as long as they clam they are, they get a passport and land taken a way from Palestinians.

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chelhman
Hamas used islam as a rallying cry and given the ratio of Palestinians deaths in the morbid repetitive scenario of "suicide bombing/retaliation", had no regard for Palestinians lives.

---

2) Again if Islam is the most unified factor of the Palestinians, then there is nothing wrong with using it to get the necessary support to unify the public to fight the occupation.
As for the Ratio issue you are talking about, is the one you are not indulgent at all,
a) you think if the death or damages are equal on both sides, Israel or any occupier will dare to occupy any nation?
b) If a group deliberately kill your parents and destroy your livelihood, will you cheer when you see one of them get hurt?
c) Guess when Israel brutality started? Right at birth. it doesn’t need hamass or any other group.
Look at this and read all the way to the end. [www.angelfire.com]

Now after you wasted 10 min of my valuable time, Is this enough for your weak soul and mind?

Hi Baba123,

I'll start with this because it's beyond comprehension for me.

The agenda of your beloved Israel

So, basically if I'm not a cheerleader who acquiesces to every dumb act Hamas did, then I must be Pro-Israel ? Are you incapable to reason beyond a binary mode ? Does the term "nuance" mean anything to you ?

As for rest :

1.) To say that Arafat used the notion of Jihad is just a bold face lie, he was a secular, he prayed in mosques and made it a point to pray in churches at every christian holiday, his own wife was from a christian family, she later converted for practical reasons.
What you imply is that Arafat had any sort of control over Hamas' actions, it's naïve to think that Hamas coordinated anything with him, they were a thorn on his side.
But what is true is that Arafat, being a tactician, used Hamas as a wild card, what choice did he have ? Hamas played the policy of "fait accompli", once a suicide bomb went off, Arafat had no choice but to use its shock wave to his advantage or he would have appeared not in control of his domain.
Once thing you can not deny because it's a fact and it's in the record : Hamas vowed to undermine the Oslo Accords, they were up in arms when they were announced and so did the extremists on the Israeli side.
The rest is staring right at you : Olso is dead and both extremists are to blame.


2.) I don't understand this sentence, could you expand on it :

As for the Ratio issue you are talking about, is the one you are not indulgent at all

I've read the link you posted. It's, as always, a recount of things everybody already knows. The question is what do we do with it ? Do both sides keep on rehashing or do they move on and try to find a reasonable and realistic solution ?

Each side in this conflict has a list of pains they're glad to start humming as a defense mechanism in lamentations. And then what ?
Again, nowhere in what I have written, did I tell you that Palestinians have no right to defend themselves. But the cards are not dealt in their favor militarily speaking, therefore violent confrontation is not an sensible option.
Hamas tried it and the result is again staring at you :
Palestinians are now more isolated than they have ever been.
But let's follow your logic to the end :
what else do you think they should do ? How far do you think this culture of death should go ? Do you seriously believe that the most sophisticated army in the region is going to yield to a bunch of fanaticized suicide bombers ?

If they do, do you think the Palestinians will bear to live under an islamic regime ? Once again read Hamas' charter*. Here's a little nugget from it :

Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it

Try sitting at a negotiating table with this, as an opening. I'm not an expert, but I don't see how any negotiator can get around this one.

Thank you for taking the time to answer to my "my weak soul and mind"


*[en.wikisource.org]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/2006 12:18 by chelhman.

T'halla f'rassk Ssi Chelhman.

chelhman,


ou matanssach trad ballak mizian

mat khafich a lalla Ilhem2, chelh 9afez m3a rassou

lol...ma3andi man ssalik a ssi chelhman.....

I always enjoy your discussion....good luck...


need a cupe of atay tizniti to help you in your battle .....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/2006 10:32 by Ilhem2.

I'd love it right now Ilhem2, atay Tiznit is a distant memory for me, can't find it in Brussels even if my life depended on it

I know....you"re addicted to atay Tiznit....it can"t be sent via net....no choice....you must wait until you visit lblad again.....

salam salam




chelhman the super hero against the fanatics

good title for a shelho-moroccan movie .

your supporters are trying to send u a msg .their heart and blessing are with you

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sarah70
salam salam




chelhman the super hero against the fanatics

good title for a shelho-moroccan movie .

your supporters are trying to send u a msg .their heart and blessing are with you

sarah70,

I'm glad to read you kidding.....for once you're not talking about the religion....it's nice to change sometimesi isn't?!........

salam alaykum


you forget salam alaykum it is part of preaching.


I apply my religion (by theway it is called Islam if heard about it) as much as i can in my life .my religion teachs me respecting the other opinions even they are wrong and don t impose mine even they are rights.

fair enough

Hi Sarah70,

The people you see here are Moroccans, they're supporting a way of life that goes back a thousand years, we've always been a tolerant and open nation. And nobody here called you a fanatic, conservative maybe, but fanatical ? Never.
Have yourself a kass dial atay, it's moroccan and it soothes the mind

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sarah70
salam alaykum


you forget salam alaykum it is part of preaching.


I apply my religion (by theway it is called Islam if heard about it) as much as i can in my life .my religion teachs me respecting the other opinions even they are wrong and don t impose mine even they are rights.

fair enough

fair enough....I also do yoga...pelates....I make sometimes diet....nice for me....however I don't have to mention it in every single message...and talke about it when ever I have the chance...it's my privat matter...and so is the religion.....why imposing to others to see the life like we do...everyone has got the right to have his/her own view......wrong or right you said?....who knows it?!....it's all relative....but one thing is sure we have a big mess in our country....it's time to find the right way to fix it.......

salam alaykum

the mess we have in our country required we roll up all together our sleeves for serious hard work i just don t see how excluding our religion will help to clean up that mess.


islam is a way of living, thinking, building up individuals and nation as well .it is more big and important than stretching your legs , injecting botox and watching out your weight.

salam alaykum

chelhman

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Have yourself a kass dial atay, it's moroccan and it soothes the mind

thank you for your offer i will accept you cup of atay as long as it is not produced at Meknes farms nor bears the name of zniber as exclusive producer .

sarah70, a consensus on atay ? I bow to our traditions then, you'll have your atay any way you like it.

The title of this topic is : Hamas is out, what does it mean really ?
My question after reading the last message is:


What is the relation between Hamas and Atay ??

I am sorry I forgot : This is a discussion between moroccans, you never know where and when it end.

With all the respect.

Hi everyone,

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Krim
The title of this topic is : Hamas is out, what does it mean really ?
My question after reading the last message is:


What is the relation between Hamas and Atay ??

I am sorry I forgot : This is a discussion between moroccans, you never know where and when it end.

With all the respect.

lol.......that’s just a small funny escape to calm down a bit.....

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sarah70
salam alaykum

islam is a way of living, thinking, building up individuals and nation as well .it is more big and important than stretching your legs , injecting botox and watching out your weight.

see that’s a sort of speech we’ve heard for hundred of years….nothing has changed …..we all know that the reality is quite different…… so if we continue preaching like this nothing will change for next hundreds years as well….that’s predictable….

salam alaykum


there is difference between just hearing and see thing happening.i am sure you will have a chance to see it concretizes just get your anti-depressing medication with you. you may run out of it.

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Ilhem2

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sarah70
salam alaykum

islam is a way of living, thinking, building up individuals and nation as well .it is more big and important than stretching your legs , injecting botox and watching out your weight.

see that’s a sort of speech we’ve heard for hundred of years….nothing has changed …..we all know that the reality is quite different…… so if we continue preaching like this nothing will change for next hundreds years as well….that’s predictable….

Dear Ilhem2
Some people were born, grown up and still live as hostages. The strong emotional relationship and the thinking tools they got during their confinement time do not allow these people to get the right distance and use a neutral loop in their judgement. This has been going for generations. It is like you are asking these peoples to go out of their skins.

salam alaykum


i prefer being hostage to my religion love than hostage and slave to human whims that never ends