Morocco # English board

You just proved me right again; you are shying away from the subject (tm)

baba123,

You got me !
My name is Shlomo, I've been posing as a muslim and inserting jewish ads on Yabiladi when you open this forum, I control Google Analytics through a server in my office in the Israeli intelligence.
What tipped you off ? I'm amazed by your clairvoyance

salam alaykum

baba123

we are called the paranoid muslim ,insteat of debating the subject we digrass to make doubt about the identity of our 'compatriot' fantom who does not miss any opportunity to spread fears with the name of self cretic and love of our religion .

he called an open debate for those who are blaspheming our faith in the media ,i think we need someone to debate him to correct his attitudes toward Islam .

the funny thing lol how he finds all that time to post so long artial in many subject at the same time during the whole day and our dear compatriots keep clapping to him waw .

hmmm fishy isn t it ?

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chelhman
baba123,

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You got me !
My name is Shlomo, I've been posing as a muslim and inserting jewish ads on Yabiladi when you open this forum, I control Google Analytics through a server in my office in the Israeli intelligence.
What tipped you off ? I'm amazed by your clairvoyance

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I'm not talking about the add, again you are avoiding subject, tell me how many times you defended Muslims and Islam , never mind how many time you mentioned Rabin in your posts.

sarah70

He is trying so hard to look like what so called “civilized westerner” by bashing all Muslims and Islam, look at his posts negative=Islam, good= west and Israel,
I’m not here to convert you or to educate you about Islam, but I still love you chelhman



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2006 04:50 by baba123.

Baba123,

I told you I'm a jew, I'm a zionist, I'm a muslim basher, I'm whatever conforts your certainties, anything not to shake your beliefs.
Don't reason, don't think, you might hurt yourself.
There's an unattributed saying in french :


"I'm glad I've known Islam before knowing muslims"

He could have been refering to someone like you.

No Baba and Sarah,
Once again, I don’t think nor do many on this forum think that chelhman’s posts equate negative to Islam and good to west and Israel. He, like many others, equates the demise of Islam in the eyes of many to fundamentalists and fanatics who hijacked Islam and are committing atrocious crimes in its name. and here’s another example how we treat someone who dare to question the religion.
Until we can accept the fact that our religion can be a subject to debate just like any other subject, we’ll just be hitting each other and circling around without really rising to a mature level discussion in which results could be seen and measured.
I know chelhman doesn't need anyone to defend his views on this forum, he can do that and even defend others. what was the subject here again?
Salam,

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Almot
I know chelhman doesn't need anyone to defend his views on this forum, he can do that and even defend others. what was the subject here again?

Thanks anyway Almot but be careful you might now be associated with a zionist, a muslim basher and more to come

There are 2 kinds of people
People that can make there point a cross without bashing the religion
And other they can’t make a point with out bringing up the religion and actually blaming very bad behavior it.
I’m still waiting for him to tell me when did he defended Muslims, and bashed other religions. Can you believe because of the phonetic Israeli views he convert him to a bearded Muslim with a mark on the front head, so he doesn’t have confronts him.
Still love you





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2006 05:51 by baba123.

baba123,

I've made my points using facts which so far you haven't been able to dispute. As for religion, I'm calling things as I see them, Hamas is a disaster, I gave you facts which again you haven't been able to dispute.

As for that pseudo-israeli gentleman, we see them all the time here, they're islamists, they use reverse psychology, they pose as jews, insult us in the worst possible way and expect of course to rally people in a big jew bashing fest. We're used to that here, a few weeks ago, there was one who started saying that Jerusalem was the capital of Israel, insulted muslims every which way he could and expected to start a fire.
He was exposed after a few posts and left. The moderator intervened I think to lock the post.
Let's get back to Hamas if you have something otherwise we'll debate some other time.

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I've made my points using facts which so far you haven't been able to dispute. As for religion, I'm calling things as I see them, Hamas is a disaster, I gave you facts which again you haven't been able to dispute

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Are you saying over 65% of Palestinians that elected them are just dump and you are the only smart man?
How can you judge theses people with out been there and feel what they feel?

salam alaykum


Ijtihad is a huge research and only scholars not theologist are the adequate people to handle this task
I want to tell you chelhman don t compare Islam with any other religion I don ‘t care if Judaism has dropped such or such thing from their scripture I am not good in theology but Islam has it is own characteristic it is last divine religion if someone here will take it as superiority I would not care .

We can debate our noble religion, there is no doubt about it, but do we have enough knowledge what the 4 sources are about (Kitab, Sunna, Ijtihad and Ejmaae.

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baba123
Are you saying over 65% of Palestinians that elected them are just dump and you are the only smart man?
How can you judge theses people with out been there and feel what they feel?

Read my posts again, I've given you the genesis that led to the arrival of Hamas, things don't happen in a vacuum, there's a trail you can follow back to the 80's.

Like I said, desperate people do desperate things.
Hamas is a reflection of the Palestinians psyche, they weren't voting for a program.
Once again, read Hamas' charter, you'll see what they're about, otherwise we'll keep having the same conversation.
When you're done, tell me why we do not want that kind of regime in our countries but wish it on the Palestinians ?

Do they deserve less than we do ?

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tell me why we do not want that kind of regime in our countries but wish it on the Palestinians ?
Do they deserve less than we do ?

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Excuse me! I didn't know you are representing all Moroccans, did they get the chance to cast there vote yet? Oops I forget they did and it was 99.9% said yes to the king and 1% absente. You make me laugh
I rather have some like hammass and most of them educated you can talked to and negotiate with like they have been doing with Fath, then most of our Illiterate parliaments 90% don’t even know how to read and write and yet still making decisions for our country



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2006 07:57 by baba123.

baba123,

I do not speak for all Moroccans, but unless you run in Al Adl wal i7ssane circles, almost everyone rejects the idea of an islamic republic in our country.

chelhman,
who brought Al Adl wal i7ssane .

1)People got tired of the corrupted and abusive officials, and you don’t feel that unless you are with the majority of poor and unprivileged people, from the way you are talking it was a lot of greens and 3assas between you and them. So you never felt what they feel.
2) people like you that want to push so hard so fast for some foreign agendas and life style, you are asking people to go right from jalaba , ltham oua hchouma to mini skirt and papa this is my new boyfriend (girlfriend), we are going upstairs so he/she can bang me/her Don’t disturb us



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2006 02:01 by baba123.

Good morning Baba123,

To answer your questions :

Al Adl wal i7ssane is a by-product of the H2 era.

1. So by the same reasoning you could say that Le Pen in France is the result of too much immigrant criminals ? I don't buy that, sorry, that's too easy.
True, abuse was rampant during the H2 era, but M6 has done wonders so far in a very short time. Al Adl wal i7ssane does not bring any solution to the table except, as always, empty slogans. No economical plan, no political program except the idiotic notion that if we overthrow the monarchy and install an islamic republic, we'll enter the kingdom of happiness. Thanks, but no thanks...
You said :"from the way you are talking it was a lot of greens and 3assas between you and them"
Wrong again : I'm 2nd generation born and raised in France.

On last detail, there's a very suspicious trail of money being funneled to the Yassines from the US, neocons money. So, as you can see, I have a lot of reasons to dislike "lallakoum".


2. Wrong here as well : read my posts on this part of the forum, I'm a staunch supporter of the "jalaba , ltham oua hchouma" as you say, as well as al 7aïk, addal and all ours traditions.
I also have no problem in absorbing other traits from other cultures except when it jeopardizes our tradition of tolerance and openness. As you'll see if you read me, the Gulf hijab with its symbolism falls in my view, in the no-no category.

Now let's get back to Hamas if you wish.

Hi all,

chelhman,


good luck in your battle ........



baba123,


you don’t represent all Moroccans either....Moroccans don’t want an Islamic regime…they want enough food to eat , enough money to go to the doctor when they are sick ….good education and generally secure future and positive perspectives for their children…..that’s what the Moroccans want …… I don’t know if you live in our beloved country coze if you do you will know well that people are much more fighting with food than with any thing else.….however from your arguments I can see that you’re living in a western country…. and that’s the point….if you are so convinced that Islamic regime is the best one why don’t you go (you and all those who claim the same ) and live in Iran or Saudi Arabia for instead …get some experiences and we can talk later……instead you’re enjoying the wealth and the democracy in a western country …it’s easy the talk………..

: Ilhem2
Ya lalla, When did I ever said I support or not support Islamic regime please read my post carefully before jumping on my throat.
I just stated the fact on what brought the “3adl oual ehssan “to power and that is it.

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baba123
: Ilhem2
Ya lalla, When did I ever said I support or not support Islamic regime please read my post carefully before jumping on my throat.
I just stated the fact on what brought the “3adl oual ehssan “to power and that is it.

baba123,

A sidi,


I'm not jumping on your throat ....


sorry if I misunderstood you .......

chelhman

Now that you give me some more info I can be precise,
Let me see, I can say with confidence you never spent more then a moth per year if that in morocco and you are trying to decide for the people that live there and see the melancholy days in and days out? I lived in France my self and I saw the first and second immigrant generation life style. And that is a different subject opening it, is like opening a cane of worms.

For Hammas subject read your posts again, you are the one that keeps bringing other subjects to the table and not sticking with original subjects.
All you are doing is cherry picking, I rebut all your comments but you haven’t.

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baba123
Now that you give me some more info I can be precise,
Let me see, I can say with confidence you never spent more then a moth per year if that in morocco and you are trying to decide for the people that live there and see the melancholy days in and days out? I lived in France my self and I saw the first and second immigrant generation life style. And that is a different subject opening it, is like opening a cane of worms.

Wrong again

I did spend a few years back home but I had to head back to Europe because I reached the limit of my studies, the rest wasn't available in our country. So you see, I have a hybrid vision and culture.
Maybe that's why you keep banging your head on the wall with me
Like I always say, "the best of both worlds"


For Hamas, please explain, I have still to see you refute the chronology and facts I gave you.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/2006 12:11 by chelhman.

salam alaykum

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Like I always say, "the best of both worlds

I don t see any from muslim world beside your name may be.

your illusion lets you think you are among moroccan intellectuals visionary?

your ideas fit best where you live right now.

sarah70, you got me all wrong once again, my hybrid culture taught me to embrace everything and learn from it. You and others, think that as muslims, we are the chosen ones by God. I've had this conversation with my cousins a million times, we're no better than other faiths or other civilizations, therefore I choose to open myself to them.

If you think about it, that's what true Morocco is all about, read our history, you'll notice that we've always been a land crossed by different faiths and different civilizations, we did not chase them away unless they were threatening, we've learnt from them.
Fruit for thought.

salam alaykum

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If you think about it, that's what true Morocco is all about, read our history, you'll notice that we've always been a land crossed by different faiths and different civilizations, we did not chase them away unless they were threatening, we've learnt from them.

i agree a million % bcoz we were and until now still are (at least for majority of moroccans) confident about our faith so we were and are not scared from the other culture ,philosophy even religion we mixed , we learn ,debate but at the end we stay confident muslim.

but when u come here and call for isolating the faith and embrace the socio-cultural identity over the religious one ( ex presenting myself as moroccan or muslim) like sending an army to face the enemy without artillery.

i think writing is a handicap to expose what i mean here for that you got me wrong as always .

chelhman

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I'm 2nd generation born and raised in France.

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then

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I did spend a few years back home but I had to head back to Europe because I reached the limit of my studies

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I call this flip flapping
so all your assumptions are Fact?
Please restate all you your facts now, and I'll answer every one of them

baba123,

Are you slow ?
Born and raised in France then spent a few years back home, which part of this don't you understand ?

salam alaykum

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You and others, think that as muslims, we are the chosen ones by God

i think your problem and for some other in this forum that you think you are born in the wrong family when it come to islam therefore you find yourself muslim accidentally and bcoz u have pride you don t like to change this fact .for that i keep saying there is difference between ONLY respecting Islam and the prophets ALL and loving them also.

as mentioned in koran the other religion judaism and christianity (like Islam) revelation came from same source which is Allah SWT so the main message is the same for me i am satisfied with islam which is the last complete devine msg .i don t need to read all bible versions ( since there are too many) .

Sarah70, anyone who's not happy in Islam can leave it. I chose to keep my faith. So, with all due respect, what's make you think you're better than me or more fervent ?
From your writings, self-criticism equates blasphemy, that's what is keeping us glued to the ground.

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chelhman
baba123,

Are you slow ?
Born and raised in France then spent a few years back home, which part of this don't you understand ?

Sure right I'm slow, now we are getting to personal stuff, I won’t go there,
State you facts about hammas, and I’ll respond when I get the chance. Don’t drag your feet on me.