Morocco # English board

Almost 18 years ago when I arrived to New York, one of the things that shocked me was the number of Moroccans who changed their names to western names. They told me then, and I was new in the city, that it was the way to get jobs and blend in society. And so I knew that I had to call simohamed, from casa, Simon, Farid, from Rabat Freddy, and Najib, a Titwani was called Nick. Of all those names, the last one made me laugh every time I called him, for he looked like no Nick at all.
We all met in central park playing foot every afternoon, and because I was the new kid in the city, they were super good to me, just like you expect a Moroccan to be. but I always blamed them for changing their names to western ones, it actually made me respect them less and want to be with them less.
Today I read this article: [youth.ibn.net] and it made me sad ones again. That because of terrorism and what Islam has become, many young Muslims are changing their names to avoid been looked at or harassed. It brought some memories to my mind and made me think, may be I was right to be a bit ashamed/embarrassed of my central park friends for changing their names, but I couldn’t feel the same for the ones who are doing it now to protect themselves and to say, in their way: I do not want to belong to the terrorists. I couldn’t find a good reason to disagree with them, I looked for one, but couldn’t find any.
It’s sad that Muslim youths come to this, and it’s also sad that we all allowed a bunch of criminals to hijack a peaceful religion and tarnish it the way they did.

OK, just shut up Almot!!!!

I guess it is sad but understandable for New Yorkers to be very wary of young Muslims, but at least your friends are in a country where they are free to call themselves whatever they like. Besides, in the US the population is made up of so many different races and religions, so many olive skinned people, I don't know how anyone can tell a Muslim just by looking at him (except when he wears the Muslim dress) In contrast, in the UK I know many Muslims who choose to call themselves by Italian names! No, not to avoid persecution, but for business reasons! They run Pizza take-aways! LOL.
This is in stark contrast to Algeria, where a young Algerian living in France was refused entry on a visit to his family in Algeria as his children did not have Muslim names, and where the authorities are refusing to register babies when their parents want to give them Berber names. So where is the injustice?
I also have a Moroccan friend in the UK, whose wife is English, and the Moroccan consulate refused to register their child unless they gave the child an Arab name. In the end he gave up his Moroccan nationality and chose the freedom of his host nation. (Nothing to do with his religion)
Do you blame Westerners for being wary? Just look in London, the people perpetrating these bombs are from families of asylum seekers, who came from persecution and poverty in their country of origin, and grew up with all the privileges afforded them by their host nation (good housing, decent education, money to live on, health services etc) and just look how they choose to repay them!
I don't know about attitudes in the US as I have never been there, but Britain is definitely a very tolerant society. Possibly too tolerant. Do you know, a friend of mine who is a Doctor, told me that when they have Asylum seekers booked in for medical services at his hospital, they automatically go to the front of the queue (policy, they are told!) ahead of the UK citizens who may have been waiting for hours.

Salaam almotanabi,

>>>>>>>>>OK, just shut up Almot!!!!

Why shut up?. It is good to talk about such things. We need however to put them in perspectif :

67.1 . Blessed is He in Whose hand is the Sovereignty , and He is Able to do all things .
67.2 . Who hath created life and death that He may try you , which of you is best in conduct ; and He is the Mighty , Forgiving ,


Each person has a test and Allah SWT says :

2.155 . And surely We shall try you with something of fear and hunger , and loss of wealth and lives and crops ; but give glad tidings to the steadfast ,

I wouldn´t say that I can understand people changing their names,but I believe it´s their right cause they are free. Off course that shows that it is a greath problem being a muslim in many situations. And I guess each one deals with that problem in his own way depending on his situation. Personnaly I would never do that. My name is a part of my personnality and who I am, and I cannot imagine myself being called Robert or Sebastian. I like being honnest, and being honnest is also telling who I really am. I´m not judging anyone, cause only god knows what those people are going through. But let me tell you that this phenomenon existed way before 9/11, and even in environements which were not too hostile to muslims. Some people do it only to get a girl, a job or even to make a better impression; others to show that they are fully integrated in the society and so on. There is also another category of muslims who doesn´t want to identify themselves with the terrorists and fanatics, but that can be done otherwise.
One thing is quiet sure, if there should be a holocaust against muslims. Changing names and identities wouldn´t save you. It is still easy to know who is who.

cali



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2005 01:11 by cali.

The main point I wanted to bring here is how could it be that a bunch of criminals can change how the entire world look at a religion of a billion plus people.? How can they, besides killing thousands of innocent people, make so many want to change their name, when we all know that your name means who you are, your culture, religion and identity, to come to a point where you choose to take a western name means you’d reached a very low point, and lost trust in your culture.
Also I have to restate that the group of Moroccan I talked about, changed their name in the late eighties, and so 9-11 had nothing to do with it. All the years I lived in this country, I saw some racism and discrimination, but I have to say that it’s lot less than my friends in Europe face every day, an therefore never saw a need for name change in the US, not before and not after 9-11.
And finally, don’t crucify me if I said that the vast majority of Americans are very open minded and good people. Again, I separate here government policies, some of which I disagree with, and just normal every day American people.

Salaam almotanabi,

>>>>>>>the vast majority of Americans are very open minded and good people.

This is a truth. Unfortunaly many see America through its foreign policy hijaked by some terrorists of another kind.

The vast majority of ordinary people in all countries are decent and honest people - it's just the bad ones that get all the attention.

wow,

some wise posts here


cali

Almot
During my stay at UCLA, I had once a discussion with a Jew with the family name Klein. He mention that her parents and many others Jews who arrived to the US decided to change their names to not be identified as Jews, to be integrated and do business. I think changing a name does not mean ignoring his background or culture. It is just about being pragmatic in a world full of idiots.
I did not change my name but I know if I had a European one life will be much easier. So I have some understanding for those who did the jumb over a very emotional barrier.

The reason I found it a bit disturbing is the fact that I never personally saw a need here in the US for anyone to do that. I know that nowadays people change their names for many reasons, also know that the choice of names for kids today is based more on the latest TV soap opera then on religion, the prophet and sahaba and others.. I guess my pride of been who I’m dictates that I be proud of the culture and the family I belong to, and therefore of the name I carry.
Krim you said: I did not change my name but I know if I had a European one life will be much easier.
And to that my friend i say : isn’t that great actually, to be able to thrive and succeed knowing that you are somewhat at a disadvantage ? for us it’s like double celebration when we succeed, my name is as Muslim as could be and so is my face, and I have to tell you, for all the years I lived in the US, it never even cross my mind to change my name, nor have I ever saw the need to do that.
I guess, it’s really who you are that determines how you’ll react.
Salaam




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2005 08:49 by almotanabi.

Hello Simon,

By the way we are very lucky in Europe, no matter we keep our Moroccan names.
And it doesn't hurt anybody.

Again, it same that USA has it's own rules.

my Moroccan name is Khalil, What the best name for me to get a job in USA

KARL MARX.

Good Luck

salaam,

I just have to add that there is sometimes there is reverse discrimination as well, eg, when I reverted to Islam, I had some well meaning people changing my name for me to a more 'muslim' ie. arabic name, without relgious basis to do so. I found that a bit presumptious, but each to their own.

As for names, I think a muslim name is good, and a name that means something good is even better. But people have to live with their names as well, so you have to take into the account the context.

As for avoiding problems due to the hijacking of islam by terrible events, I don't think changing a name is going to really change anything. People are profiling for themselves based on race, clothing, and beliefs, they daon't even have to know your name to sneer in the street at someone they seem to hold responsible for these acts.

And as for the tolerance of UK society, well, in some quarters, yes, and in legislation, alhamdolillah, but in many other areas there is still a huge amount of prejudice and discrimination.

Inshallah one day we will have real religious tolerance, but we have not yet arrived at that day, for example when someone earlier said something like ' being Muslim presents a problem that each person deals with in his own way' (sorry for the misquoting I'm sure).

Being Muslim may present pactical difficulties as created by other people, but actually it is one of the most wonderful gifts for a person's life, as I'm sure most of you already know.

Respectfully.

Dear Almot
WE have a german by the name Osama Abdallah. He does not speak arabic, mother german father egyptian. He looks german and on the phone he has no problems getting an interview. However, he has been sending applications for a job by regular mail and until now he has just negativ responses.

I hope my kids will not have these problems.

Dear Krim,

I am curious to know which country you are talking about? Is it Germany? I ask because I have to say that my kids all have Moroccan names (all four of them) and they have never had problems with finding employment, going right back to when they were students, and now they are all in high professional positions (but in the UK)

Lurcher21

Si Krim,
I agree with you, and me, too, my kids are exactly my big worries. I don’t want them when they are adults to be looked at differently because of their names or culture, but I’m afraid they will, because of the unprecedented hijacking of Islam and its followers.
I think that even if your friend apply today for companies that do not discriminate, the fact that his name is Osama will play some role in denying him a job offer. As you know, for many in the Muslim world that name is symbolic of power and resistance, but in the west and for many Muslims around the world, it’s a synonym of horror and terrorism.
Lets just pray, if you kids are as young as mine are, that these views will change by the time they’re ready to go and make their lives on their own…


Hello Lurcher21,
I think Krim talks about Germany

salaam,

I think that when a muslem individual changes his name into a westerner one especially in the united states is not due to this person wanting to change it for no reason or for wanting to be like "john"but because he is forced to.Even when you live in some states that the level of racisme is low ,people still look at you as a foreigner ,more as a terrorist no matter how you try to explain to them your point of view about "Islam verses terrorism".I think it is a matter of time to prove that Islam has nothing and never will be encouraging to kill innocent people ,and it is in our hand to change it ,we muslems that live in the western world .where did all the good behaviour that the muslem used to be known for in the time of mohammed (peace be upon him)?and what became of the message that mohammed(peace be upon him) used to spread "islam is the religion of peace not war".
we are all human beings at the end.

lurcher21 a écrit:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dear Krim,
>
> I am curious to know which country you are talking
> about? Is it Germany? I ask because I have to say
> that my kids all have Moroccan names (all four of
> them) and they have never had problems with
> finding employment, going right back to when they
> were students, and now they are all in high
> professional positions (but in the UK)
>
> Lurcher21


Sorry for the delay dear lurcher.
I was talking about a case in Germany but there are many cases in France as well.
I think there are some serious studies on discrimination in France.

Dear Almot
educating educating.....good schools etc....the only way to get them through.

Yalatif







almotanabi a écrit:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Si Krim,
> I agree with you, and me, too, my kids are exactly
> my big worries. I don’t want them when they are
> adults to be looked at differently because of
> their names or culture, but I’m afraid they will,
> because of the unprecedented hijacking of Islam
> and its followers.
> I think that even if your friend apply today for
> companies that do not discriminate, the fact that
> his name is Osama will play some role in denying
> him a job offer. As you know, for many in the
> Muslim world that name is symbolic of power and
> resistance, but in the west and for many Muslims
> around the world, it’s a synonym of horror and
> terrorism.
> Lets just pray, if you kids are as young as mine
> are, that these views will change by the time
> they’re ready to go and make their lives on their
> own…
>
>
> Hello Lurcher21,
> I think Krim talks about Germany
>
> salaam,
>
> Almot