It was an image, you know reading the KOran and understanding it is two different things...

Once again, who was the best human being on earth??? The revelation came through Prpphet Muhammad (PBUH) and He never turned to violence with his wives!!!!On the contrary he used to help them with everything even with the household chores!!!

Quote
Sweetlatifa
It was an image, you know reading the KOran and understanding it is two different things...

Once again, who was the best human being on earth??? The revelation came through Prpphet Muhammad (PBUH) and He never turned to violence with his wives!!!!On the contrary he used to help them with everything even with the household chores!!!

Image? lol
I would be have been so funny if it wasn't tragic.

TRagic??? I am sorry but you are completely missing the point.

Obviously, you have a grudge against Islam, it's your own right not to believe in the teachings of Islam but please do not say that the Koran encourages violence when the word 'salam' is used every day by Muslims.

Yes very tragic.

One day, (hope not) your husband will beat you up like that imam said, then you will understand why it is not very good, even as an image.

Some day, I'll marry Mr Right Inshallah and he will treat me like a queen...and hope he will follow the exmaple of the Prophet (PBUH).And I will be the happiest girl on earth...

Don't know that Imam...

to hit her lightlywhy not to hit him lightlywhy it is the woman who need to be hit
islam is a choice not a obligation why in quran it says clearly the punishment of ridda is killing , a person who become a muslim through fear ghazawate in prophet time for exemple if he declares that he doesn t want to be a muslim anymore in the quran ther is a clear verse which says it s halal to kill him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! where is the choice here

PLease, quote the verse. No need to have empty discussions.

I have already explained that Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) used to treat his wives in the best way. He was more than a genteman. He never used violence, he never shouted at them.

He is our best example.

Wife beating is widespread in western societies, is it because of Islam too???

Quote
whatsup
to hit her lightlywhy not to hit him lightlywhy it is the woman who need to be hit
islam is a choice not a obligation why in quran it says clearly the punishment of ridda is killing , a person who become a muslim through fear ghazawate in prophet time for exemple if he declares that he doesn t want to be a muslim anymore in the quran ther is a clear verse which says it s halal to kill him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! where is the choice here

"According to Quran the relationship between the husband and wife should be based on mutual love and kindness. Allah says: "And among His Signs is this, that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquility with them, and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts): verily in that are Signs for those who reflect." (Quran: Ar-Rum 21)

The Holy Quran urges husbands to treat their wives with kindness. (In the event of a family dispute, Quran exhorts the husband to treat his wife kindly and not to overlook her positive aspects). Allah Almighty says: “Live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and Allah brings about through it a great deal of good.” (Quran: An-Nisaa 19)

The Prophet (PBUH) never hit any female, and he used to say that the best of men are those who do not hit their wives. In one Hadith he expressed his extreme repulsion from this behavior and said, "How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then embrace (sleep with) her?” (Al-Bukhari, English Translation, vol. 8, Hadith 68, pp. 42-43)


After reading that, if you keep on stating that Islam is an anti-women religion, then no need to go further...

which planet are you from ?comic and tragic in the same time your way of analysing things , we are discussing the obvious , very clear things which are part of islam and somehow you justify things in a weird way , ther is no justification of violance against women , no justification for marrying a girl of 6 year old , and the list is long....................................................................
violance against women exist in western society BUT and this a huge but , it is illegal , and ther are strict laws against it whoever dares beat his wife he will have his ass thrown in jail for years , his children taken from him and a restriction order not even to be few miles closer wher the victim is

in Islam it is part of the religion beating up the woman is halal and permitted and blessed by the holy quran to hit them lightly helloooooooooooooooooo we are talking about a human being not an animal

I am a human being just like anyone.

Please just answer this question: where is it written in the holy Koran that six-year old girls can get married???

You say that wife battering is encouraged by Islam and yet our beloved Prophet (PBUH) never used it, are you logical???

Violence and Islam do not go hand in hand.

no i don t think i can convince you but i will leave this to the specialist his highness the sheikh who studied the quran and hadiths may be this will shed some lights on the matter
[www.bivouac-id.com]

muslims beleive that marrying little girls with milk teeth is acceptable because the prophet married aicha at 9, and the hadith says aamalou kama aamal which means copying the prophet in everything including marrying little girls
click on the you tube and see for yourself how this sheikh explain the legimicy of marrying little girls and how he gives the exemple of aicha

enjoy

Look, I am sincerely convinced that Islam is a fair religion.

I don't care about what some Muslims say, the main thing is what God (swt) said.

Lots of people are turning now to Islam...why??? because they are forced to??? No because in Islam, there are the solutions to our daily problems.

I told you, quote a verse where marriage with six-year old girls is permitted...I'm still waiting...

MOREOVER

All the stories circulating on the Internet and in the hadiths books about Aisha's marriage at age of 6 or 9, are no more than lies found in the corrupted books of Hadiths and completely contradict the teachings of the prophet Muhammed that came from his mouth, the Glorious Quran. We only need to read the Quran to know how false these stories are.


Hamdoulillah, God is great, I am so proud to be a Muslim. I feel in harmony with myself.

the sheikh quoted the verse didn t you hear him wallati lam yabloghna al mahide[/[/b]u]
minors who don t have their period yet !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

are you denying that the prophet married aicha who was a little girl at six and the marriage was consommed at 9??? very simple question is this a fact?
sira nabawia how many ahadiths says to do whatever the prophet used to do his behaviour and private life ? ...etc
the prophet married a girl at 6 he is the exemple to follow = muslims are allowed to marry minors = green light from the muslim prophet to marry under age girls, and this whats happening nowadays old men marrying little girls and if anyone objected they say we are following what the prophet did and he said aamalou kama aamal
very simple and can t simplify more than this
it s nice sometimes to activate the brain cells

We do not have the same KOraN.

[6:21]Who is more evil than one who lies about GOD, or rejects His revelations? The transgressors never succeed.

[29:68] Who is more evil than one who fabricates lies and attributes them to GOD, or rejects the truth when it comes to him? Is Hell not a just retribution for the disbelievers?


Shame on you!

Salam Passerby and Whatsup,


We should make a distinction between precepts of Islam and the actual so-called muslim countries, you are quoting examples from kuwait and Morocco and the rest as if those were ruled omar ibn alkhattab (R), you seem to have forgotten that once political power in a country is hereditary, there is a huge paradox as to calling this country a muslim state, except when we are making allusion to the religion of the people...it is clear, they think their reference is Islam, maybe just the same as Ismaelites who do not see any problem with drinking alcohol or with Ahmadites who are waiting for almehdi, or even our Bourghouata, i am exaggerating a bit...

Also, this approach of quoting hadiths and some "laws" and interpreting them in a some fantasistic way is a bit weird when we consider that all "3oloum Deen" are academic & scientific disciplines and have their own research and analysis methodology, same as sociology, an example of this is that there is Ahadith sahiha that are refuted by other ahadith or by a quranic text.. we should be aware of these before venturing into these kind of debate, you have asked dozen of questions to which there is hundreds of answers, all plausible, just because there is people who's job is to find answers to such questions..

Moreover, debates such as that last 9 years genius fatwa are surreal!! where did you ever see a 9 years' old girl getting married just because there is an Einstein interpreting hadiths in his who knows what way, come on, it a fake debate...this guy Almaghraoui, was a "friend" of Albassri and administrated the numerous dar alquran in Marrakech, now the this liaison is over because of changing times and he is idling, that's why he came with such a brilliant "sortie"

You seem to "chercher la faille" as the french say, do you think really that women are mistreated, because Islam is a sexist religion ?? If there is any problem in the muslim world, it is because we are underdeveloped, because we are illiterate, because we are third world counties, etc. On the other hand, why are all these European and american women converting to Islam ? they are masochists perhaps...

Also, All the things you mentioned can be subject to debate from an islamic point of view, there is only few untouchable issues, among which is uniqueness of God. on the other hand, the range of issues that can be subject to change according to context is very huge and comprehensive of many actual issue, an example of this is Dr Alkaradawi's fatwa about "lawfulness" of housing credit when meeting certain conditions to which was opposed a number of ulema, even in Morocco. There is also people see that we should re-discuss "Ossool Deen" like Dr Hassan Tourabi, which was considered by some as heretic....this flexibility is what made Islam live in other civilizations throughout history, from Persia to Indonezia via Spain..

I think we should stop looking at ourselves from a western european/amercian media point of view, we can only despise ourselves and have a huge inferiority complex doing so..

unbeleivable

very sad and tragic as passerby commented in the begining of this post and i can confirm thats indeed it is very very very tragic
i know that colour blindness exist but i think brain blindness is much worst
any blond hair by any chance

That is all you could come up with ...well, man, i am expressing my point of view as you have read or maybe haven't read...i am not here to fight over something, so if you have any ideas, ara tchouf, otherwise, i am allergic to "blond" ones NO offence...

Hicham A, thanks for your comment , respect your point of view but still think that
beating up women as the prophet said is wrong even lightly
marrying under age girl is wrong , marrying 4 wives is wrong
i don t talk here about ahadith daeefa but sahiha
anisaou na9isato dinine wa aakle!!!!!!!!!!! thats a hadith sa7i7e
and also a hadith can t remember the wording in arabic but says the following
la taflaho ommato wallat amraha limr2a
I don t think anything wrong to question certain aspects in the religion
personnaly can t accept that a man hit my sister lightly in the name of religion or marry other three in the name of religion , or accept that someone 51 marry my little daughter because the prophet did that and perfectly acceptable from a religious point of view .
and when someone can t agree with certain things in religion it does not mean copying others
but defending human rights against aggression, paedophelia and discrimination

Hicham A , my comment not adressed to you but to the author of the post who accused other of being disbeleivers
which a predicted reaction, it s a method used when a person has nothing to add the"y use
attakfire

No Problem Whatsup, sorry also if i reacted quickly

Are you blond or something???
I am tolerant, if you do not believe in islamic teachings, it's your business and I respect that, the thing I do not accept is giving wrong statements about Islam.

REgards,

Latifa

Quote
whatsup
Hicham A , my comment not adressed to you but to the author of the post who accused other of being disbeleivers which a predicted reaction, it s a method used when a person has nothing to add the"y use
attakfire

I am so sorry Mr. Einstein...

Yes, you 're right, I can't hold a candle to you...

DO you think I can learn from you to catch up with my brainless way of thinking??? Please tell me, I am at the end of your tether!

Professor Whatsup, when do we start for the first lesson? I am looking forward to your answer.


Yours,

Latifa

Quote
whatsup
unbeleivable

very sad and tragic as passerby commented in the begining of this post and i can confirm thats indeed it is very very very tragic
i know that colour blindness exist but i think brain blindness is much worst
any blond hair by any chance

Here is an interesting book to start with....

[www.amazon.com]

I read it some years ago, perhaps the title has changed to WOMEN IN ISLAM.... She is quite well known in western academic circles, her book, are used as text books in some universities.

Quote
Passerby

Quote
Sweetlatifa
I am just describing the holy message of Allah, full of wisdom.

God is fair and if we fellow his teachings, no one will be wronged.

There is no discrimination in Islam. The problem is not with the religion itself but with the way it is applied..and maybe that's where the rub is...Don't you think so?

Your logic is really funny regarding this.

A woman inherits half and for you this is not discrimination!

you say Islam hold the men financially responsible. Isn't this discrimination as well? if the woman earns as much as the man, why shouldn't they be equally responsible?

I found your logic Passeby a bit funny as well . Can you imagine having two Captains on board the same ship with similar duties? do you think that choas or order will prevail? it is the same in the house, you just cannot have two people (husband & wife) with the same responsibility..I am afraid this is what happening in some so called 'civilised societies'.
Men and women are created equal but not identical.

It is the interpretation of ahadiths and sourates that can be miss leading. It is like trying to explain physics to someone who hasn’t been to school. Women have periods each month also the period after giving birth that can affect their way of practicing the religion (they are excused) compared to Men.This doesn’t mean that they are worse or better. Women are more emotional during these foresaid periods; correcting them verbally when they are wrong doesn’t mean beating XXXt out of them. Wa Allah a3lam

fcurrito thank you for the link.

Very interesting thread. But I see that the threadstarter post was a little bit short... a little like "eh let's talk about Islam and women. I say that my religion is nice toward women and I'm sad to see people see otherwhise."

now, that's cute. So much innocense... Arent you a cuttie?

But it's not a problem. the people here are cut aswell and gave some good feedback.

You need people here to disagree with you. Or all the debate would be a waste of time. I wont be this person... I trust my religion.

But here is the problem. And I let you discuss it.

In Islam, women have rights and duties. But these rights and duties are different from the men's rights and duties. And this is the real problem. In the Western world they think that men and women are equals... In rights and duties.

Enjoy!

Lemask Hi
The Western societies don't believe that women and men are equal but only show that women have more rights than our women. In daily dealing with women the expression " she is a woman don't you know that?" is repeated again and again in a pity way also in a degrading one too. In general, it is easy to just criticise phenomenon then providing solutions for it.
Now that we have established that Muslim women are not treated the correct way the religion dictates and recommends in the relationships. I don't see our Muslim world as a developping one; in the contrary the west is foward looking societies when ours are going in circles.(

Hi LeMask,

My point was the following one: Situation of women in Islam in the past and nowadays. When I read about women at the time of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), I discovered that they used to have so many rights and now they are regarded as inferior human beings.

I do agree with you, having a debate is discussing opposing points but respectfully.

Sharing an idea about Islam is one thing but insulting the religion is another kettle of fish...

Sincerely yours,

Latifa