Hamas is out, what does it mean really?

Morocco # English board

21 November 2006 13:58

Sarah70
It is wonderfull to see you happy with your love to your religion.
I have no problems with it.Unfortunatly, I am right with the hostage picture.

sarah70

21 November 2006 14:07

salam alaykum

been right or not it is only a relative conception that is all about.

sarah70

21 November 2006 14:24

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sarah70
salam alaykum

chelhman
Quote
Have yourself a kass dial atay, it's moroccan and it soothes the mind

thank you for your offer i will accept you cup of atay as long as it is not produced at Meknes farms nor bears the name of zniber as exclusive producer .

i was just teasing.

moirk

21 November 2006 14:39

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sarah70
salam alaykum

i prefer being hostage to my religion love than hostage and slave to human whims that never ends

I prefer to be hostage and slave to human whims. At least there is a hope to change my mind and put anything in question. This allow me to live with a dynamical knowledge and push me to keep doing some brain storming looking for my truth. Others prefer to live with a static knowledge and a truth found by others.

Ilhem2

21 November 2006 16:35

Quote
Krim
Dear Ilhem2
Some people were born, grown up and still live as hostages. The strong emotional relationship and the thinking tools they got during their confinement time do not allow these people to get the right distance and use a neutral loop in their judgement. This has been going for generations. It is like you are asking these peoples to go out of their skins.

dear krim,

I must say you"re right.....this is very sad because it's coming from young people... we will never move on.....the question I always ask my self is until when?...how many generations do we need to make a change?!...I have no idea.......

Ilhem2

21 November 2006 16:41

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sarah70
salam alaykum

.....i am sure you will have a chance to see it concretizes just get your anti-depressing medication with you. you may run out of it.

you seem to run out of constructive arguments.....however insulting others will not make you better sorry....

sarah70

21 November 2006 18:18

salam alaykum

krim

You are trapped on your prejudice that makes you blind to see how my religion is inspiring for self-criticism; constructive thinking that shapes my mind and lets me adapting my actions and reaction to different situation and circumstance.
I learned that I should never ever loose hope on life and people (like u for ex)
The faith wisdom was never been static.

sarah70

21 November 2006 18:34

salam alaykum

ilham

I don t mean to offend you (I am sorry in this ) it was just way of talking, I am not looking to sound better for you or for anyone else.

baba123

21 November 2006 22:07

Sorry I was a way too busy.
Krim,Ilhem2, Is this SOS from the other site to help and cheerlead chelhman?

I didn't know this was a battle of that nature, I didn’t want to bring up to the surface, but I think soon I’ll have too ,so for every one to see the true agenda of some of us “or should I say them as they are saying it in other sites”.
Sorry! Very disappointing

zaki7

21 November 2006 22:27

well,

the only thing you seem to forget is that they are willing to strap their body with bombs and will kill as many as you do kill using F-16. It seems that you or Hamas don't really get it. None of the 2 people will eradicate the other, and none will win by applying the other's extremist strategy. If you're really an Israeli, you should know that from your teachings, David and Goliath sound familiar?

The only path to peace is negotiations and political sacrifices, on both sides, you will never curb down the Palestinians and the Palestinians will never wipe off the map Israel. When you guys will get basic self-evidence, you will advance towards living in peace. Until then, watch out for your kids and they'll watch for theirs hoping that no civilians will be blown up.

2) it does seem to me that you're not really really Israeli but a moroccan who is trying to provoke here and there, it's Chelhhman, not "Chlahman", and since only a moroccan would know that chelh = chlah... smiling smiley

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Israelnumber1
chlahman,
Look! Read all the news and the comments by world leaders and you will see that Palestine will not exist on the west bank, Gaza is the only city that will house the entire Islamic terrorist. So they will be next to Egypt and not us, a buffer zone will be created on west bank.
For the last 50 years we tried to be civilized but obviously it didn’t work, so now the policy is, they kill one we kill ~50 they bark at use we injure ~20 and so on a so forth by the end of the century we will bring them to there knees.
A questions, have anyone seen us killing any Christians? they don’t bother us we don’t bother them.
Shalom

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/2006 11:26 by zaki7.

Ilhem2

22 November 2006 00:35

Quote
baba123
Sorry I was a way too busy.
Krim,Ilhem2, Is this SOS from the other site to help and cheerlead chelhman?

I didn't know this was a battle of that nature, I didn’t want to bring up to the surface, but I think soon I’ll have too ,so for every one to see the true agenda of some of us “or should I say them as they are saying it in other sites”.
Sorry! Very disappointing

baba123,

as far as I know Chelhman he doesn't need any help....I think he can defend himself very well....don't you chelhman smiling smiley

...

chelhman

22 November 2006 01:01

Yes Ilhem2, our friend here knows that very well, but it's easier to deflect by making up conspiracies than to bring a sensible argumentation to the table.
He tried "jew" it didn't work, he tried "rich kid" it didn't work, now it seems there's a conspiracy involving all of you. smiling smiley

Ilhem2

22 November 2006 01:13

Quote
chelhman
Yes Ilhem2, our friend here knows that very well, but it's easier to deflect by making up conspiracies than to bring a sensible argumentation to the table.
He tried "jew" it didn't work, he tried "rich kid" it didn't work, now it seems there's a conspiracy involving all of you.

don't worry chelhman and keep going smiling smiley

......

chelhman

22 November 2006 01:28

massmar j7a, I'm not going anywhere a lalla Ilhem2 smiling smiley

baba123

22 November 2006 01:33

here is one very little hint for you.

Quote
xxxxxxx
"Azul,

Dans la partie anglaise du forum de ce site, actuellement il y en a un certain "Chelhman" qui se bat tout seul meskine contre une dizaine de panarabiste pour qu'il est temps de rendre aux amazighs leurs droits arrachés depuis des siecles.
S'il y a des anglophones parmi vous n'hesitez pas à lui venir en aide, (He need your help hh)."

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2006 01:33 by baba123.

chelhman

22 November 2006 01:37

baba123, I've seen that months ago, that was during the debate on the amazigh question. It seems soussis have taken to heart that debate. So what ?

You've read me, do you seriously believe that I need help ?
Bring your argumentation, give me something, anything, instead of googling my alias trying to dig up dirt.

Lallakoum must be really desperate to use tactics provided by her neocons masters. smiling smiley

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2006 01:37 by chelhman.

sarah70

22 November 2006 01:42

salam alaykum

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Lallakoum must be really desperate to use tactics provided by her neocons masters.

who is 'lallakoum' i just get confused here.

moirk

22 November 2006 09:31

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sarah70
salam alaykum

krim

You are trapped on your prejudice that makes you blind to see how my religion is inspiring for self-criticism; constructive thinking that shapes my mind and lets me adapting my actions and reaction to different situation and circumstance.
I learned that I should never ever loose hope on life and people (like u for ex)
The faith wisdom was never been static.

Your religion is inspiring for self-criticism and constructive thinking of many minds in the islamic world.
That´s why the UN human developement report is clear on the great advances achieved in the arab world.
O% illeterate, No human right abuses, the first computer was invented in the arab world. Chemical industry is exporting in all over the world. women in Saudia arabia have the right to drive cars, 90 % of inventions and Nobel prices are from the arab world. All these advances can be explained by the religious impact and inspiration for self-criticism and constructuve thinking.
What a critical mind, what a commun sense, what an anlytical mind
It is this mixture of arrogance, ignorance and stupidity which let you think that Krim or x or Y are trying to help anybody in this forum. THis just show the kind of thinking tools you got in your religious confinement. OOOHHHH I forget, at the end of the disscussion the Yabiladi webmaster will give a great price for chelhman and we will get our part. Please keep in mind :Everyone here contribute as an single free mind and not as member of any kind of a religious sect or whatever.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2006 09:36 by Krim.

moirk

22 November 2006 09:32

uote:
sarah70
salam alaykum

krim
You are trapped on your prejudice that makes you blind to see how my religion is inspiring for self-criticism; constructive thinking that shapes my mind and lets me adapting my actions and reaction to different situation and circumstance.
I learned that I should never ever loose hope on life and people (like u for ex)
The faith wisdom was never been static.

Your religion is inspiring for self-criticism and constructive thinking of many minds in the islamic world.
That´s why the UN human developement report is clear on the great advances achieved in the arab world.
O% illeterate, No human right abuses, the first computer was invented in the arab world. Chemical industry is exporting in all over the world. women in Saudia arabia have the right to drive cars, 90 % of inventions and Nobel prices are from the arab world. All these advances can be explained by the religious impact and inspiration for self-criticism and constructuve thinking.
What a critical mind, what a commun sense, what an anlytical mind
It is this mixture of arrogance, ignorance and stupidity which let you think that Krim or x or Y are trying to help anybody in this forum. THis just show the kind of thinking tools you got in your religious confinement.OHHHHH I forget, at the end of the disscussion the Yabiladi webmaster will give a great price for chelhman and we will get our part. Please keep in mind: Everyone here contribute as an single free mind and not as member of any kind of a religious sect or whatever.

Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2006 10:50 by Krim.

sarah70

22 November 2006 13:56

salam alaykum

karim

what do u know about my religion to make your non sense comment many people who are born in muslim families learn islam thru non muslim (please don t tell me that makes you have neutral viewpoint ,there is no such neutral notion in this day ok?) and therefore they use the miserable situation in islamic world as a pretext to attack islam and to put fears within the muslim.

Quote
It is this mixture of arrogance, ignorance and stupidity which let you think that Krim or x or Y are trying to help anybody in this forum.

i think you get confused here chelhman is master of his show he does not help from anyone from the audience and supporters in this forum.

moirk

22 November 2006 14:17

karim

what do u know about my religion to make your non sense comment many people who are born in muslim families learn islam thru non muslim (please don t tell me that makes you have neutral viewpoint ,there is no such neutral notion in this day ok?) and therefore they use the miserable situation in islamic world as a pretext to attack islam and to put fears within the muslim.

Now you accept that there is a miserable situation in the islamic world. Now this is a fact.
Now can you please ask yourself How did we come to this situation ?
Do not tell me because of the west.
The west was able to colonize because we were in an already miserable situation.
So ask yourself why the arabo-islamic civilisation lost any contact with progress since the middle of the 14th century ?
Ask why Ibn Rushd who was trying to put the muslims on the right track was unsuccessfull ?

Is sticking to the coran as the only source of khowledge an historical mistake or not ?

Just try to answer these questions without emotion and do not take personally.

We are all muslims but I can tell you we are in two diffrent planets.

With all the respect

sarah70

22 November 2006 19:47

salam alaykum

Karim

I don t know if your absurd judgment comes from misunderstanding or it is in purpose anyway .Islam thru Coran Sunna ...etc called and asked for knowledge from all sources for the benefit for ALL human being .bcoz a stronger believer (u can take it for individual if believer does not fit your logic) is more productive in the society than the one who is reluctant to any source of knowledge my argument here when people rejecting the faith and telling people it is the cause that holding them down or back behind the civilization
If anyone knows the reason behind his creation he will really know what I mean here.
We are brought in this life to worship and worshiping God is thru working hard for the welfare and the peace for the entire human.
Islam condemns lazy, hypocrite corrupt minds and hearth so don t try to tabloid the religious people with all those bad images.

I am sure Ibn Roushed was wise scholar who never forgets the reason why we are brought here.

chelhman

22 November 2006 20:02

Quote

sarah70
when people rejecting the faith and telling people it is the cause that holding them down

Hi,

Sorry to interfere with your conversation with Krim but where did you see anyone here rejecting the faith ?
If someone has a more nuanced or simply different approach to faith than you, then you decree that they're rejecting it ? That's takfirism, you get to decide who's muslim and who's not.

P.S : this post is about Hamas, we're lucky the moderator isn't locking this post.

moirk

22 November 2006 22:14

Sarah70
Instead of answering my questions you are repeating this perrot type discourse.
Like God said we should work hard etc......we should we should..etc
This did does and will not work. we will still have the miserable situation.
The people should be educated to confront the real world and not think it is better to wait to be in the next one. Muslims were waiting to see the moon to start fasting, the others landed on it.The muslims waitet for God to kill the viruses, the others discoverd a vaccin for it. The muslims waitet for the woman to give birth to a baby but she and the baby died, the others discovered techniques to keep both in life etcetcetc.
The muslims interact only with a non proven world.The others also interact with the same world but most of the time they interact with what they can touch. This make the difference.
Working hard is a learning process. it requires emancipation in thinking and asking all the question about every thing. You have to have an environment which feed your curiosity as a kid. You will learn that working is for achieving your goal. Make a new material, understand a physical phenomena you can not immagine the joy for the one who discover or invent.This feeling that you are doing, achieving something during your life. Help cure a desease............
Thanks to the french who came and create schools in Morocco. The other alternative, we will be in the best case sitting in a mosque repeating the coran like perrots. Read history anf get out from your religious confinement.
The prophete did not want perrots but muslims who can think and by thinking you learn to work hard.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2006 10:36 by Krim.

sarah70

22 November 2006 22:21

salam alaykum

chelhman

Quote
If someone has a more nuanced or simply different approach to faith than you

wait wait ....

Takfirism ….You are pointing the finger to the wrong person here, It is none business what people believe on.
Please chelhmen stop your binary, nuances stuff here.

Lets talk without encryption give me example leave aside your intellectual masked speech.
For me I will give example (that is just ex )

when people come here and say if women/man in our country are very poor to get married and their family daily income is about 1 Euro then it is ok to have relation outside marriage and who cares about religion (if someone refer Coran then he has no personality) I know everyone is free to do what he/she wants at their private corner but promoting that on public , what you call it ASI chelhman? Isn it stepping on the faith?

Don’t jump here and tell me our country has a big problem and I am discussing that as I said we need a reform for will being of the Moroccan without forgetting our Islamic moral values. What people drink or do at their private place I don t care, and I respect their privacy they don t have to obey religion moral dictations if they don t believe on them.

LeMask

22 November 2006 23:11

the poor palestinians... sad smiley

they found themselves forced to choose between corrupt traitors (Fatah) and extremists (Hamas)...

so they did choose the only ones who gave them any kind of "results"... terrorists...

in fact, Hamas is "considered" a terror organisation... not a political or anything else... it's a terror organisation.
and they are right, it's a terror organisation.

and if you look carefully into your dictionnary, a terrorist is anyone using terror to reach it's objective. so an America asking Iraq to give away it's weapon or mass destruction or face destruction is ALSO a terror organisation...
and then, if you look carefully, so is Israel and most of the governments through the world...

it's a stupid ideology...
it's not up to the international community to decide what is wrong or not.
anyway... they support democracy when it's going toward Israel's good. and when it's against "them"... it's refused.

anyway... just BS happening around the world, nothing new...

sarah70

22 November 2006 23:56

salam alaykum

karim

Quote
Instead of answering my questions you are repeating this perrot type discourse.

at least it is mine.

Quote
The people should be educated to confront the real world and not think it is better to wait to be in the next one. Muslims were waiting to see the moon to start fasting, the others landed on it.The muslims waitet for God to kill the viruses, the others discoverd a vaccin for it. The muslims waitet for the woman to give birth to a baby but she and the baby died, the others discovered techniques to keep both in life etcetcetc.

You think I am against the progress and I am enjoying our situation as if it is haven ,as I said we need general reform without throwing our Islamic morals value if you can do that so u have all my blessing(it is just an expression smiling smiley

Moroccan are struggling with their daily GOUFA they don t even get to the point to think of the education as a necessity it becomes like luxury almost inaccessible that it is shame on all of us, I am sure if you go to anyone and ask are willing to give up your religion for exchange to better life he will replay YES. There I don t like reform that is challenging people with their faith. Bcoz faith is not responsible for their miserable situation.

Quote
The muslims interact only with a non proven world.The others also interact with the same world but also interact with what they can touch. This make the difference

Well what I can say it is only qst of time and you will find out if that world exists or not I have no proof for you here it beyond my capacity evil

chelhman

23 November 2006 01:02

Quote

sarah70
wait wait ....
Takfirism ….You are pointing the finger to the wrong person here, It is none business what people believe on.
Please chelhmen stop your binary, nuances stuff here.
Lets talk without encryption give me example leave aside your intellectual masked speech.
For me I will give example (that is just ex )
when people come here and say if women/man in our country are very poor to get married and their family daily income is about 1 Euro then it is ok to have relation outside marriage and who cares about religion (if someone refer Coran then he has no personality) I know everyone is free to do what he/she wants at their private corner but promoting that on public , what you call it ASI chelhman? Isn it stepping on the faith?

Don’t jump here and tell me our country has a big problem and I am discussing that as I said we need a reform for will being of the Moroccan without forgetting our Islamic moral values. What people drink or do at their private place I don t care, and I respect their privacy they don t have to obey religion moral dictations if they don t believe on them.

From the little I understood of what you wrote, your problem is that you want us to just shup up even if we notice that something is wrong in the way our faith is being sold, portrayed and practiced.
Or that we should shut up if we disagree with someone's way of interpreting the scriptures, any word from us and we're "stepping on faith".
Sarah70, try to put this in your head, one of the basic teachings of islam, because it came in as a protest or correction after the first 2, is that, nothing is written in stone, everything evolves, everything changes, everything must be adapted, so is the faith.

Do we still wip people for adultery in our country ?
Do we stone homosexuals to death in our country ?
No, we don't. Because we adapted, look at the moudawana for instance, it's a way of adapting.

We do need a reform on our country but like Ilhem2 already told you on another post, religion has nothing to do with it, your values are yours, we're talking about working on adapting the society to its environement, addressing social problems is not done in mosques and not by imams. Religion is not everything, it has its place but it is not a panacea.
Grow up ! will you.

sarah70

23 November 2006 02:41

salam alaykum

chelhman

Quote
Do we still wip people for adultery in our country ?Do we stone homosexuals to death in our country ?

still there is a punishment which is jail for people if they get cough of , which it means both cases are not acceptable and they have nothing to do with out islamic value.but if you come next day to tell me we need reform here and those people has right to promote their behavior in public well m3andi mane goulak.

and next step not only fired hijabi women punish them if they go outside with hijab.so here your point

Quote
[b
your values are yours[/b]]

is out of plate.

the mosque are every where like mushrooms it is better to demolish some to build a building since we run out ofland in some cities.

ramadan the restaurant should be opened to serve people who do not fast.

what next promote and encourage our kids to invite their girl/boy friend home as one day benshamsi said it s better at least he is sure that his daughter boyfriend will not be violent with her incase their night turns out to be nasty he will be at her room door to protect her.

this is what i mean when i said the reform to produce empty muslim and we will continue to call ourselves muslim just to calm some of us.

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Grow up ! will you.

alhamdoulilah i am mature enough to see what your msg hide at the back.

moirk

23 November 2006 08:41

Quote
sarah70
salam alaykum

karim

Quote
Instead of answering my questions you are repeating this perrot type discourse.

at least it is mine.

Dear Sarah
I wish you are the only single one. Unfortubatly it is not the case

1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

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